A question for Muslims

Abu Loren wrote: When King Tut was killed, it's widely believed that he was a teenager at the time. So the answer is he had time to grow.

Good point, actually.

Unlike king Tutankhamun, Ramses II was not a teenager when he died. He was 5 feet 7 inches tall.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ramesses2intro.htm

He lived 700 years before Rome was a Republic and almost 1200 years before it became an Empire. Yet he was shorter than the average Roman soldier. The book describing the height of Roman soldiers being 5 feet 10 inches to 6 feet was written in the 4th century AD.

Another interesting discovery is that of the Terracota Army- thousands of life sized statues of Chinese soldiers made during the time of Emperor Qin, who lived in the 3rd century BC. The statues of the men range from 5 feet 8 inches to 6 feet 2 inches, with the commanders being 6 feet 3 inches tall.

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/ramesses2intro.htm

Ramses II was shorter than them, too. So was his father, Seti I who was 5 feet 7 inches tall.

http://www.reference.com/browse/Seti+I

Nesyamun was an Egyptian pagan priest who lived in 1100 BC. His mummy was 5 feet 6 inches.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/leeds/content/articles/2008/08/14/history_nesyamun_feature.shtml


King Thutmose the IIIrd, who lived in the 15th century BC (prior to Tutankhamun, Ramses II, the Roman Army or Nesyamun)... was barely 5 feet tall.

http://ancienthistory.netscype.com/article/thutmose-iii-interesting-facts

Lindow Man, a mummy of a man who lived between 2 BC and 119 AD in Great Britain, was 168 centimetres, or approximately 5 feet 6 inches tall. Yet only 3-4 centuries afterwards, the average height of Roman soldiers ranged from 5 feet 10 inches to 6 feet!


And Muhammad claimed people have been getting shorter throughout history up to his time!

 

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TG12345 wrote: Why do you need to find someone 90 feet tall to disprove what Muhammad said?

 

Abu Loren wrote: Because by faith I can believe in this statement. You on the other hand want to disprove it and for that purpose you need to find the skeleton of a90 feet man. Why do you find it hard to believe this?

If I wanted to disprove that people are shorter than Adam allegedly was, a 90 foot skeleton would indeed be necessary.

However, that is not what I am trying to do.

I am disproving the statement that people have been continually diminishing in height up to the time of Muhammad.

If that were true, you would not be finding mummies of Ancient Egyptians who lived a millennia before De Re Militari was written who were almost all shorter than the minimal height of a Roman soldier!

Why do I find it hard to believe that people had been diminishing in stature up to the time of Muhammad? Because they hadn't!

TG12345 wrote: That statement is quite simply not true. People's heights had gone up and down between the time of Adam's creation and the 7th century AD, due to a variety of factors. However, they have not been decreasing continuously. My "useless data" indicates that at least for several centuries between the creation of Adam and the 7th century, the height of human beings at time rose and at other times decreased. This shows that people have not been continuously been getting smaller until the 7th century.

 

Abu Loren wrote: Like I said you can't produce data that only compares a few generations. Do you believe it's possible that a grandfather who is tall, his son who is short and his grandson who is tall can occur within just three generations?

The Egyptian pharaohs who reigned before 1200 BC and the Roman soldiers of the 5th century AD lived more than "a few generations" apart.
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TG12345 wrote: Of course not. I'm not the one who claims they have been continuously decreasing in size, and I don't believe the person who made that claim was a prophet.

 

Abu Loren wrote: In that case, why don't you just get lost? Stop trying to disprove Islam and to discredit the holy Prophet of God (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). I wish I could use stronger language on this forum.

Tell you what, instead of telling me to get lost and lamenting the fact you can't talk on this forum like you can talk on the street after coming out of a nightclub... why don't you prove to me that people in fact had been decreasing continuously in stature until the time of Muhammad? There is so much historical evidence. It should be a cinch for a man of your great intelligence to prove me wrong and once and for all show that between the time of Adam and the time of Muhammad, people had been continuously getting smaller! Go ahead!

 

TG12345 wrote: He was an intelligent man and he sincerely believed he was serving and following God. However, some of the things he said were clearly false. This is one of them.

 

Abu Loren wrote: It's only your opinion. So you can keep it, no probs. He was only a warner so those who want to believe then believe and those who want to disbelieve then disbelieve. Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala told Prophet Muhammad (SalAllahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) not to cry for the disbelievers as hi only duty was to convey the message.

Perhaps. What we know for certain is that God didn't tell Muhammad that people had been continuously getting smaller between the creation of Adam and his time.

 

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TG12345 wrote: Does your faith allow you to assume you will enter Heaven?

 

Abu Loren wrote: No. What I meant was that ALL humanity from Prophet Adam (Alayhi Salaam) to whoever the last person to die will be in rows in front of our Maker before Judgement. I was just hoping that I'd get a glimpse of him so I can see what the father humanity looked like. :)

 

Abu Loren wrote: I really want to see Paradise ringo, hence the reason for my conversion. At least I have 1 chance of being forgiven now. I don't associate anybody with God Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala Maker of heaven and earth. To Him belongs all the dominion and Majesty. There is none comparable to Him and he forgives whom He wills and He punishes whom He wills.

You don't know who God is, unfortunately. You are right about one thing. He is the greatest, and He does punish and forgive whom He wills.
 

Abu Loren wrote: Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!

He is indeed the greatest! Blessed be His Name!


Edited by TG12345 - 02 February 2013 at 4:20pm

 

Abu Loren wrote: Shirk!

Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren.

No, I am merely stating the reality of who God is.

You are denying Him and what He has done for you.


BTW care to return to the topic we were discussing? I have provided more evidence that people have definitely not been decreasing in height up to the time of Muhammad. Is there anything you can say to disprove that?

Or are you going to continue to ignore obvious historical evidence to the contrary and go on asserting that you believe God told Muhammad something that turned out to be obviously not true?


Edited by TG12345 - 03 February 2013 at 6:31am

 

Abu Loren wrote: Shirk!

TG12345 wrote:  Salaam Alaikum, Abu Loren. No, I am merely stating the reality of who God is. You are denying Him and what He has done for you. BTW care to return to the topic we were discussing? I have provided more evidence that people have definitely not been decreasing in height up to the time of Muhammad. Is there anything you can say to disprove that? Or are you going to continue to ignore obvious historical evidence to the contrary and go on asserting that you believe God told Muhammad something that turned out to be obviously not true?