BIBLE;JESUS NOT CRUCIFIED

Hi Webber,

I am sorry, I have gotten behind here so I will try to add a little to what you said.
If we back up to what Johnford said near the top of the page:
Quote: Before you want to argue please read Genesis very carefully ... and do it again ... and you might note that Adam and Eve were not thrown out of the Garden because of 'sin' ... 'man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil: and now he might reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever' ... no sin ... Adam and Eve did nothing wrong ...
But in knowing good and evil that God had to protect them from the Tree of Life and for the protection of humankind we had to die.

Response: --- As you said Webber, they followed the suggestion of Satan, instead of God�s commandment to eat only designated fruit, --- and the strange fruit was not digestible or compatible with their pure bodies, --- and the Glory of God that �clothed them� was withdrawn because they became �unholy� in their act of disobedience, so the �life support system� of the Holy Spirit had to be withdrawn.
--- And they were cast out of the Garden and given a new �life support system of �blood within the flesh� --- the same as we have today.
In their original bodies they would have lived forever in harmony and obedience to God, --- but they sinned.

Perhaps John would like to hear the same story of the Garden from Surah 7:
12 (God) said: "What prevented thee (Iblis, Satan) from bowing down when I commanded thee?" He said: "I am better than he (Adam): Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay."
13 (God) said: "Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures)."
16 He said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way:
17 "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."
18 (God) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee, - Hell will I fill with you all.

--- (In the Garden of delights)
19 "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and enjoy (its good things) as ye wish: but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."
20 Then began Satan to whisper suggestions to them, bringing openly before their minds all their shame that was hidden from them (before): he said: "Your Lord only forbade you this tree, lest ye should become angels or such beings as live for ever."
21 And he swore to them both, that he was their sincere adviser.
22 So BY DECEIT HE BROUGHT ABOUT THEIR FALL: when they tasted of the tree, their shame became manifest to them, and they began to sew together the leaves of the garden over their bodies. And their Lord called unto them: "Did I not forbid you that tree, and tell you that Satan was an avowed enemy unto you?"
23 They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."
--- (They admitted that they had sinned against God and their own souls, or they wouldn�t have asked for forgiveness, nor admitted that without forgiveness, they would be lost, --- would they have?)

24 (God) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood, - for a time."
25 He said: "Therein shall ye live, and therein shall ye die; but from it shall ye be taken out (at last)."
--- (Notice: --- �Get ye down on earth, THEREIN SHALL YE LIVE AND THEREIN SHALL YO DIE.� --- No more �herein� as it was in the Garden in harmony with God where there was no physical death, --- but �therein� --- on earth.)
--- They also died �Spiritually� as they were no longer holy before God, so they were given bodies with a covering of layers of skin (skins), as we have today.

26 O ye Children of Adam! We have bestowed raiment upon you to cover your shame, as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, - that is the best. Such are among the Signs of God, that they may receive admonition!
27 O ye Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their raiment, to expose their shame: for he and his tribe watch you from a position where ye cannot see them: We made the evil ones friends (only) to those without faith.

--- And notice the statement in 26, (God) said, �But the raiment of righteousness, - that is the best.�
And in 27, �Let not Satan seduce you, in the same manner as He got your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their (righteous) raiment.�
--- (This is called �The Original Sin,� --- or �The Fall from Grace,� --- in verse 22.)

Placid