ALL Christians will go to HELL

Caringheart wrote: Greetings Nausheen, "Associating partners is a sin" We must be careful to discern what this means... associating partners with God.� Did Muhammad have a divine birth?� and yet you can not speak the name of allah without speaking also the name of Muhammad.� So be careful in your discerning.

Hello Caringheart,

Perhaps you missed my statement in of the previous posts. Whatever I said here is from the standpoint of the Quran.
Im very careful in saying what is associating partners ... it may be different for a christian, and that is not the debate to make it clear.
According to the Islamic faith associating partners has a definition - according to that definition noone shares divinity with Allah.

I have seen your charges on raising the status of Muhammad next to Allah in another message a response to which is still pending ...
Declaration of faith includes the name of Muhammad (pbuh) as follows:

There is no god but God and Muhammad is His messenger.

We don't say Muhammad (pbuh) is god or a part of god or one with god etc, we call him His messenger. If this reads as attaching a status of divinity, then I cannot help.

It is said in the Quran that obedience to the messenger is obedience to Allah.
But for you the Quran was written by Muhammad (pbuh) himself - thus we can keep going in circles :)

Caringheart wrote: "the belief that there is a god besides God" Regarding this,This is what is so hard to make others understand"the belief that there is a god besides God"We do not believe there is a god besides God.� We do not believe Jesus is a god.� Jesus is One with God... a part of Him...the part that God Himself chose to send to this earth, to His creation, in human form,

According to our faith God does not have any parts in form of flesh and blood.
Flesh and blood is His creation, and very much separate from His entity.

I dont think its as hard to make others understand as you see it. Because I am reading many of TGs comments where he seems to understand most of our beliefs, including the differences between us and his faith.




Edited by Nausheen - 17 January 2013 at 11:46pm

I know it's pedantic and tangential, but i couldn't resist...

Reepicheep: 3 modulo 2 = 1 in the sense that 1 is the remainder after division, which might tempt irreverent comments from someone as warped as I am.

Caringheart: As for the 'trinity' of fundamental forces, weak, strong and electromagnetic, What about gravity? Yes, it extends far beyond the subatomic scale, but so does electromagnetism, eg in the form of light. Yes, the Standard Model fails to address gravity, but if that's your point of reference, then you would have to unify the electromagnetic and weak nuclear forces, so leaving only two - strong and 'electro-weak'. Hmm?

TG12345 wrote: God loves you and He spilled His blood for you on the cross.

TG, how can you say that he is insulting you when you are insulting God Himself? How can you say that Abu is using foul language when it is you that is using the most despicable, provocative and outright disgusting language towards your God? To say "He spilled His blood"? How far can you go? In the name of Allah, He (Almighty) will not be pleased with you when you stand before Him. You must realise the seriousness of what you are saying. You must have been raised with this blasphemous doctrines and it's engraved in your thoughts and find it hard to reason without them. You must abandon them. Your intentions might be sincere but your foundation is all wrong. It's blinding you from what is true. You must give yourself a chance. You owe it to yourself. This is madness what you are saying. I saw you in the video standing supporting the people of Palestine doing good against the oppressors, I only ask that you do good to yourself too. Insha Allah.

TG12345 wrote: It is disgusting and provocative and foul to not be thankful to God for what He has done for us. He has created us and sent us prophets, and willingly came down to earth in the form of Jesus Christ the Son. He willingly lived among us, suffered for us and died, so by accepting what He has done for us we can be led to salvation. By denying these things, you are basically showing Him your middle finger and saying "I don't care what You did for me. I am not grateful to the sacrifice you made. None of it happened anyways".

Jesus is not God, he is a man. And God does not die. It's really that simple TG. You're believes portray shame and weakness to God and this is blasphemous. The guys you listen to changed the true message of Jesus (pbuh), they invented an idea. That's all they did. Who influenced them? Satan!  Who else but him? It's hard for you to swallow but it's true. It's fiction at best meant to separate you from the truth. That's all it is. You're people are proving this everytime they foolishly attempt to describe a representation of this mysterious trinity thing. One day God is like an egg, another day like a three-headed dog, or 3=1 because Integer Modulo 2, or or or. You guys are stuck with it. It's all about innovation for you. It's as if God needed a backup plan so he killed himself to save humanity, those sinful creatures. Subhan Allah. You've been praying to an idea since you were eighteen. Allah hears your prayers but how can he be pleased if you call Him Jesus. How can he be pleased when you're praying and saying things like "I thank you for spilling Your blood for me"? Unthinkable Astakfur Allah. This is how you thank your Creator, you Sustainer? You think He needs to kill himself for anything?

TG12345 wrote: If I am wrong and Islam is right, I am grateful to God and thanking Him for something He didn't do. If you are wrong and Christianity is right, you are in effect telling God you don't care about what He has done for you.

Not if, you are wrong. You are so wrong! You can't even begin to imagine how wrong you are. See I'd never say "if I'm wrong", because i know I'm not, because Islam gives me sufficient sound information to wash away any doubts, unlike you with your trinity. You're not thanking Him (The One God), your thanking an idea. And this is shirk, the only sin that Allah The Creator won't forgive. Fear what you are saying. Fear in Allah and give yourself a chance. You told me that you had doubts before in your faith. That was your heart telling you something. It's telling you it wants the truth, because it will only accept the truth, otherwise it won't be in peace. That's all your heart really wants, it wants peace. With Islam you get peace, everlasting peace and all your doubts are washed away.

TG12345 wrote: It is as offensive to me to hear people denying the crucifixion as it is to you to hear people affirming it.

That's why I have mixed opinions about debating with Christians on a regular basis. It can get very personal. But in the end it's worth it, given that both parties are willing to demonstrate in sensible reasoning, accept defeat when defeated and not deter from the topic being discussed. Otherwise it's time to move on.

TG12345 wrote: However, because God loves you I do not hate you and I will not demean you or insult you.

We're discussing sensitive topics here so expect a bit of something from time to time. But if I insulted you I never meant to.

TG12345 wrote: BTW I have not been raised with these 'blasphemous doctrines'... I became a believer in Jesus Christ when I was eighteen. Religion was not taken seriously in my family.

That's good. You should have given Islam a fair chance by reading the Quran. I'd advise you to focus on the Quran first before you start reading the hadiths. The hadiths are taken as extra supporting material to the Quran. You should read and finish the Quran first. It seems you haven't completed reading the Quran yet still, this didn't stop you from making claims about Islam. You keep making statements about Mohammad (pbuh) having some truths and having some falsehoods, and that he's not a prophet blah blah blah. You haven't read the whole Quran, so please be fair to muslims and finish reading the Quran.

TG12345 wrote: I believe Islam does not show God for who He really is, and I believe there are some mistakes in the Quran and hadiths that show that Islam is not from God.

Please finish reading the entire Quran and read the tafseer of all the versus to get a good understanding of the whole message. Otherwise don't make claims because you're proving that you don't care about what Islam has to teach, you just want to teach what you have.

TG12345 wrote: I believe what is in the Bible to be true, and believe that much of your religion is false.

This demonstrates how you make your claims while being ignorant in the Quran.