CHRISTIANS:WHO CAN FORGIVE SINS?

Hi Rational,

Quote: You are trying to prove that the Quran and the Bible, in their current form, are compatible and have the same message. You use versus from both books that agree, but ignore all the others that contradict and disagree.


Response: --- Yes sir, --- I have said I could be considered a Muslim by the identification often used for Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as in Surah 2:
130 Pickthall: And who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself? Verily We chose him in the world, and lo! in the Hereafter he is among the righteous.
131 When his Lord said unto him: Surrender! he said: I have surrendered to the Lord of the Worlds.
132 The same did Abraham enjoin upon his sons, and also Jacob, (saying): O my sons! Lo! Allah hath chosen for you the (true) religion; therefore die not save as men who have surrendered (unto Him).

And in some translations it uses the word, Islam, as in this one:
130 Yusuf Ali: And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous.
131 Behold! his Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to Me):" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe."
132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! God hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."

Quote: Muslims are told by God (SWT) that the Quran is the complete, preserved and final message, and it is a blessing from Him and we should be thankful:

Response: --- I have no problem with that, but what is the actual reference in the Quran?

I should explain that some years ago, after what is called 9/11, there was so much negative publicity about the terrorists, that it put a black mark on Islam, --- but was it all justified? --- Before that I observed Muslims as sincere people, modest in dress, and supposedly of good moral character.

I had previously come across a Pickthall translation of the Quran where I worked and thought I would read it sometime. --- So, this was the time.
While I was reading it from a Christian point of view, I was amazed by the amount of history and compatibility I saw with the former Scriptures. --- On entering a forum similar to this one, I said I was interested in learning about Islam.
--- A Moderator at that time said, �If you want to learn about Islam, read the Quran.� --- So I did. --- I even made notes of similarities, and continued to study.

I learned that Al-Islam meant �The Surrender,� or �Submission,� --- and Muslims are �Surrendered ones.� --- So how can we compare that to Christians?

Rather than making this post too long, I will continue later. --- I appreciate your questions and will answer them, and hopefully we can continue discussing.


Placid

I'm trying to recall a time when Jesus actually said "I forgive your sins".

Hi Mahdi

Quote: So u r a muslim? again you are using the Quran as the basis of your belief. your arguments do not make any sense. you cannot believe n the Bible and Quran at the same time. choose one.

Response: --- Since the angel Gabriel said that the Quran confirmed the former Scriptures, in 625 AD, --- and there have been no changes to the Scriptures or the Quran since then, --- I believe what it says.

I believe also what Muhammad was taught to say and to teach in Surah 3:
84 Say: "We believe in God, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to God do we bow our will (in surrender)."

Also these verses from Surah 4:
162 "But those among them who are well-grounded in knowledge, and the believers, believe in what hath been revealed to thee (Muhammad) and what was revealed before thee: And (especially) those who establish regular prayer and practice regular charity and believe in God and in the Last Day: To them shall We soon give a great reward.
163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Apostles after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms."


My question is? --- Are these all different people in the Quran, than the ones that are in the former Scriptures that Gabriel confirmed?


Placid

Hi Mahdi,

Actually, you can Identify me as a Muslim (surrendered one) if you like.

You say that Abraham was a Muslim (surrendered one), so anyone who identifies with him would be of Islam, is that not right? --- And it says in Surah 2:
130 And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous.
131 Behold! his Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to Me):" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe."
132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! God hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."
133 Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy God and the God of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac, - the one (True) God: To Him we bow (in Islam)."

And Jesus was identified as the Miracle healer sent from God in verse 49, and it continues in Surah 3:
50 '(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
51 "It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight."

52 When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) God?" Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: We believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
53 "Our Lord (God)! - we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Apostle (Jesus); - then write us down among those who bear witness."
55 Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

--- (Does that not say that those who follow Jesus will be going to heaven?
So it identifies that the Faith of Abraham, and surrender to God, identifies a Muslim, --- And in v50 Jesus said, ---�Obey Me,� --- which is the same as in the Gospel where Jesus said, �Follow Me.�
--- So, �obeying Jesus,� or �following Jesus,� as the disciples did, leads to the Way that is straight. --- So, in that sense, --- true believing followers of Jesus could be called Muslims, could they not?)   

And in the NT, it said this nearly 600 years before it was written in the Quran --- in Galatians 3:
16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, �And to seeds,� as of many, but as of one, �And to your Seed,� who is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; --- but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you are Christ�s, then you are Abraham�s seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Placid