CHRISTIANS:WHO CAN FORGIVE SINS?

Hi Rational,

This was your original post on page 2:

Quote: Originally posted by Placid
Actually, you can Identify me as a Muslim (surrendered one) if you like.

Assalam alaik Placid,

You are trying to prove that the Quran and the Bible, in their present form, are compatible and have the same message. You compare versus from both books that agree, but ignore all the others that contradict and disagree.

Muslims are told by God (SWT) that the Quran is the complete, preserved and final message, and it is a blessing from Him and we should be thankful:

"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion." (5:3)

http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/15:9
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/4:82
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/41:42
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/3:85
http://tanzil.net/#trans/en.sahih/3:19

Muslims trust in the Quran and consider it to be the only remaining, complete, unaltered, true word of God (SWT). Muslims cannot trust or rely on other books because they could have been altered. Muslims believe in the books revealed by the prophets, but not the current versions that are in contradiction with the Quran.

That said, it seems you agree with the teaching of the prophet Mohammad (pbuh) and the Quran. Which implies that you believe that Mohammad (pbuh) was the last messenger of God (SWT) after Jesus (pbuh). And you identify yourself as being a Muslim.

For this reason, are you prepared to declare that you are a Muslim by saying the following:
"There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is the messenger of Allah"? --- End of quote.


Response: --- While I have answered your question at the end, --- I was concentrating on the first paragraph, where you said this:
Quote: You are trying to prove that the Quran and the Bible, in their present form, are compatible and have the same message. You compare verses from both books that agree, but ignore all the others that contradict and disagree. End of quote.

So I asked, what verses do I ignore that �contradict and disagree.�?

Then I asked, �What are the new laws in the Quran that are not in the former Scriptures?'


Placid

Hi Rational,

Quote: Third time I'll ask you the same question. Remember I asked first so it's your turn to answer. If you're not comfortable with this question you can say so and we'll happily move on.
In claiming that you are a muslim, do you believe in the two parts of the following sentence?
"There is no God but Allah and Mohammad is the messenger of Allah"?

Response: --- Actually that was the last question you asked in your first post and I was going through it systematically, to find out what is �ignored and disagreeable� between the Bible and the Quran, --- and what new laws there are in the Quran that are not in the former Scriptures.

I am a Christian, so, a follower of Jesus. --- However, I gave the identification from verses in the Quran that since the word Islam means �Surrender,� --- and Muslim means, �a surrendered one,� --- then I identify with the faith of Abraham who was �surrendered� unto his Lord in Genesis. --- And with the disciples mentioned in Surah 3:52, who were called �surrendered ones� or �Muslims� by some translators.
--- The name Christian means �Christ�s ones.�

No, I am not a Muslim according to your definition.
--- But when we get through the other questions, we can discuss this further.
--- I have high regard for Muhammad and the Quran, as you know, and we all believe there is only One Almighty God.

However, what bothers me is this:
While this is meant to be a statement of faith for Muslims, --- when used as a creed by the terrorists, it �defames� Muhammad, because it identifies him as the leader of the terrorists, under God.

--- God led Muhammad in a Mission to destroy idolatry in Arabia, and restore faith in One God, --- which he accomplished. --- I believe it was at that point that God revealed the profound statement that is tucked away in Surah 5:
3 �This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.�
--- Because before Muhammad brought peace and declared victory, and the completion of his Mission at his �Farewell Pilgrimage� in year 10 of the Hijrah, shortly before he died, --- he still had enemies and objecters to the Faith, did he not?


Placid

Hi Rational,

Quote:Thanks for your reply.
Complete and Final:
"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion." (5:3)
Preserved:
"Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardian." (15:9)

Response: --- Okay, 5:3 confirms that the religion of Islam means �Surrender unto God,� --- which I mentioned in the first response, where we identify this surrender with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. --- Then with the Apostles of Jesus, --- and this is the faith and �Surrender unto God� that I follow, --- as Jesus said in Surah 3:
51 "It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight."

My first question is? --- If this is the Way that is straight for a Christian, can there be a straighter Way?

Your first statement was:
Quote: You are trying to prove that the Quran and the Bible, in their current form, are compatible and have the same message. You use verses from both books that agree, but ignore all the others that contradict and disagree.

--- So, While I am answering your further questions, I wonder if you will make a list of new laws written in the Quran that are not in the former Scriptures?

--- Because I just use the Bible and the Quran, I don�t read any links or hadiths, as only the revelations that God gave to Muhammad through Gabriel are inspired, are they not?
I have read that Muhammad said to his companions, �Don�t quote me as saying anything that isn�t in the Quran.�

--- So if you can first give a list with the references to new laws in the Quran that we should follow, we can start with that,
And then you can list some of the ones I ignore, �that contradict and disagree.�


Placid

Hi Webber,

Quote: I'm trying to recall a time when Jesus actually said "I forgive your sins".

--- There is an incident in Matthew 9:
1 So He got into a boat, crossed over, and came to His own city.
2 Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, �Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.�
3 And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, �This Man blasphemes!�
4 But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, �Why do you think evil in your hearts?
5 For which is easier, to say, �Your sins are forgiven you,� or to say, �Arise and walk�?
6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins� �then He said to the paralytic, �Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.�      
7 And he arose and departed to his house.
8 Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men.

--- It may have been a special display �in His own city� --- as not so many believed in Him there.