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CHRISTIANS:WOULD YOU KILL A SUCKLING?

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Mahdi The Seeke View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 November 2012 at 4:52am
1 Samuel 15 King James Version (KJV) Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling ox and sheep, camel and ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Placid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2012 at 2:13pm
Hi Mahdi,

--- I have been going through your list of questions, that others have not answered, and I am nearing the end of them

However, --- this was written about the Amalekites who lived about 1070 BC. They were a nomadic, marauding people who did not believe in God and were an enemy to Israel, so eventually, they were annihilated.

The Calendar was restarted with the birth of Jesus, --- and the New Covenant (the New Testament). --- During the time of Jesus, the followers were persecuted, but did not retaliate. --- The Scripture says, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

There have been atrocities in the name of religion, including Christianity, --- but for ‘believing’ Christians who worship God and follow Jesus, it is the very opposite of, --- “Loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself.”    

Quote: Christians would you kill a suckling?
1 Samuel 15 King James Version (KJV) Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling ox and sheep, camel and ass.


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Mahdi The Seeke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mahdi The Seeke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2012 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by Placid Placid wrote:

Hi Mahdi,

--- I have been going through your list of questions, that others have not answered, and I am nearing the end of them

However, --- this was written about the Amalekites who lived about 1070 BC. They were a nomadic, marauding people who did not believe in God and were an enemy to Israel, so eventually, they were annihilated.

The Calendar was restarted with the birth of Jesus, --- and the New Covenant (the New Testament). --- During the time of Jesus, the followers were persecuted, but did not retaliate. --- The Scripture says, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

There have been atrocities in the name of religion, including Christianity, --- but for ‘believing’ Christians who worship God and follow Jesus, it is the very opposite of, --- “Loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself.”    

Quote: Christians would you kill a suckling?
1 Samuel 15 King James Version (KJV) Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling ox and sheep, camel and ass.




wow. justifying the killing of sucklings.wow
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islamispeace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote islamispeace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2012 at 4:44pm
Placid, your response is a typical Christian response.  First, you say that "loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself" is the way to go, yet at the same time, you cannot bring yourself around to categorically condemn the horrific genocide in the land of Canaan that the Bible claims God (Jesus, in your view) commanded. 

Also, it wasn't just the Amalekites which were "annihilated".  It was also the Midianites...and the Hittites...and the Amorites...and the Perizzites...and so on...

What I find even more ironic is the fact that the same Christians who so enthusiastically defend the Biblically-sanctioned genocide also have the audacity to actually criticize the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for fighting against his enemies and killing them!  Yet, Muhammad (pbuh) did not kill women, children, the elderly, or farm animals!  I don't know if you are one of these Christians, but it is an all too common hypocrisy amongst many of your brethren. 


Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2012 at 9:00pm
Greetings Islamispeace,

It is because with Jesus came a new covenant... God was "doing a new thing".
Muhammad's teaching is a throw back to the old testament ways.
Most followers of Jesus also have trouble reconciling with what went on in the old testament... but that is why they do not follow the old testament but the Gospel... the good news... the new testament... the new covenant.

Salaam,
Caringheart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Salaam_Erin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2012 at 3:59am
Except that it wasn't a war of genocide but a war of liberation. The Book of Joshua was written in a high context culture which knew that Canaan was part of the Egyptian Empire and that Canaan was ruled by pro-Egyptian Quisling Kings. Most of the Canaanites had been exiled in Egypt and came back with the Israelites. The Exodus led by Moses did not have Israelites in it. And even then if you study the Book of Joshua carefully, Joshua's battles were disabling operations and not genocide. He only destroyed three cities, Jericho, Ai and Hazor. They then kept going back to Gilgal. After Joshua died, the plan fell apart and Israel was overrun by different nations. They ended up living with the Canaanites, and the conquest was only completed by David. As God said to Abraham, the sin of the Amorites had not reached its full measure. (Genesis 15:16) As for the Amalekites, Saul was instructed only to attack one settlement. If you study the history of the Amalekites from the Bible and from the records of the other nations around, the Amalekites were a unique culture which was entirely based on terrorism and raids, in which even the children were involved. They had in earlier times attacked the elderly and babies from behind when Moses was marching with Israel through the Sinai Peninsula.

God gave the order against the Canaanite tribes as an act of judgement for their sin, but He did so knowing Israel would fail, mix with them and lose the ideological war with them, ending up just like them, so they suffered the same fate as the Canaanites in the north in 721 BC and the south in 587 BC. Remember, Midianites actually merged in with Israelit culture- after all, Moses' father in law was the Midianite priest of God.

People need to read the Bible carefully to see what it actually says and not what people think it says.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bunter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2012 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Mahdi The Seeke Mahdi The Seeke wrote:

1 Samuel 15 King James Version (KJV) Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling ox and sheep, camel and ass.


One wonders why you quote this verse and not Matthew 5:44 where Jesus tells us to love our enemies?
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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 November 2012 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by Placid Placid wrote:

Hi Mahdi,

--- I have been going through your list of questions, that others have not answered, and I am nearing the end of them

However, --- this was written about the Amalekites who lived about 1070 BC. They were a nomadic, marauding people who did not believe in God and were an enemy to Israel, so eventually, they were annihilated.

The Calendar was restarted with the birth of Jesus, --- and the New Covenant (the New Testament). --- During the time of Jesus, the followers were persecuted, but did not retaliate. --- The Scripture says, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

There have been atrocities in the name of religion, including Christianity, --- but for ‘believing’ Christians who worship God and follow Jesus, it is the very opposite of, --- “Loving God and loving your neighbor as yourself.”    

Quote: Christians would you kill a suckling?
1 Samuel 15 King James Version (KJV) Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD. 2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling ox and sheep, camel and ass.




Placid,
so according to your book, God ordered killings of man and women who do not believe as you do including their infants and poor ox and sheep, camel and ass.
How you justify and associated such and action to God you claim to be loving?
Please explain in plain English and be brief.
Hasan
39:64 Proclaim: Is it some one other than God that you order me to worship, O you ignorant ones?"
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