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THE MESSAGE OF THE MESSENGERS |
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Caringheart 
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Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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 Posted: 09 October 2012 at 8:20pm |
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Greetings TNC, Ok, so I have taken time to look up the passage. This was after Jesus had risen and came back and appeared to His disciples, so yes, I guess it is referring to the Disciples receiving the Holy Spirit from Jesus so that they could begin their ministry. This is one of the differences in the accounts of how the Holy Spirit was received. I guess it depends on how it was described by the Apostles themselves and how it was later interpreted and recounted. Remember that there were accounts being told in different places changing languages and so language would have an impact on how it was translated. You know how sometimes there just isn't a word in one language that describes another word in another language? Sometimes it is hard to convey meaning when changing languages. This was the way John conveyed the meaning of the Apostles receiving the Holy Spirit from Jesus. Remember I am no academic. This is purely from my own studying and understanding. I am not taking from any 'expert' interpretation, only what God has given me to understand. This is just me and my own understanding.  Blessings to you, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 09 October 2012 at 8:22pm |
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Caringheart
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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 8:00pm |
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Greetings TNC, Your question made me think of this: "Will the "real" Jesus please stand up." Sorry just my humor.  Anyway, "... there is a big difference between �WITH him� and �HE is� Truly there is not. The Spirit of God was with Him, and He was, and is, that Spirit of God. This goes to understanding the Holy Trinity, which I have as yet to be able to explain and make clear to any Muslim. It must be a mystery revealed to the mind only by God himself. They are all one and the same... Father(Creator God), Son(Father in the flesh, conceived as the Son), and Holy Spirit(the spirit of God). Just as a three leaf clover has three leaves, but they are all part of one clover. "So this verse �I saw the Spirit descending from heaven... and abode upon him.�(John 1:32) Will imply that Jesus abode upon Jesus." The flesh was flesh before God sent the Spirit(the power of God), at baptism. Did Jesus perform any miracles before receiving the Spirit, the power of God? Until then He was flesh with divine knowledge but without the power. This is the way I understand. Caringheart |
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Caringheart
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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 5:36pm |
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Greetings, I really hate when people confuse my words when I think I have been quite clear. I will say it again. The Holy Spirit whom Jesus referred to while He was with His apostles was Himself... the Holy Spirit was in Jesus... remember the Spirit of God... the dove... which descended upon Jesus when John the Baptist baptized Him? Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit to His apostles after He was gone from the earth... that the Holy Spirit could not come into them while He was still here on earth, but when He was gone they would not be left alone... that when He was gone he would send that Spirit[of Himself] to them, to indwell them. While with them in the flesh, Jesus was that Holy Spirit of God. Once he was gone the Holy Spirit came into the Apostle's at pentacost. No confusion. Is it a mystery? Yes. Mystery is not the same as confusion. Salaam |
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honeto
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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 12:12pm |
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Caringheart, you said above: "Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him...�and to His apostles, while on earth" This is in contrast to what you said once before. Remember when we were talking about John 16:12�I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13�But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14�He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15�All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you." At that point you were saying that this refers to the coming of the holy spirit. Now you are saying that while on earth Jesus and the apostles had that Spirit with them. In fact you are saying that Jesus was that Spirit! So now beside creating more problems, it disproves your own thoughts before that the Holy Spirit was the one that the above verses say will come. Hasan |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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truthnowcome
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Joined: 05 April 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1045 |
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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 11:03am |
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I am waiting, Peace! TNC Greetings
TNC, This is
easy to explain. I am not
going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I
hope that you and I may follow. Jesus
did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while
on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as
breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is
'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity
here... to make sure we are Salaam, Caringheart Caringheart, there is a big difference between �WITH him� and �HE is� If the spirit of God is with him and he is the Spirit of God then what you are implying is that Jesus is with Jesus.
So this verse �I saw the Spirit descending from heaven... and abode upon him.�(John 1:32) Will imply that Jesus abode upon Jesus. Which one is really Jesus (S)? thc |
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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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truthnowcome
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Posted: 09 October 2012 at 10:42am |
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I am waiting, Peace! TNC Greetings
TNC, This is
easy to explain. I am not
going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I
hope that you and I may follow. Jesus
did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while
on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as
breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is
'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity
here... to make sure we are understanding each other. Salaam, Caringheart
Peace unto
you! It says in John.20:21-22 �...As my father hath sent me, even so I �send� you (the disciple) and when he had said this, he breathe on them, and said unto them, �received ye the Holy Ghost.� (John.20:21-22). They were then sent to go and remit sins: �Whosesoever sins ye (The disciples) remit, they are remited unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.� John 20:23 Did
they remit sins empty handed? Edited by truthnowcome - 09 October 2012 at 10:48am |
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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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Caringheart
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Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Posted: 05 October 2012 at 11:10am |
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Greetings TNC, This is easy to explain. I am not going to quote your entire post as it will only be confusing to others, but I hope that you and I may follow. Jesus did/does have the Spirit of God within Him... and to His apostles, while on earth He is that Spirit of God that is with them. As far as breathing on them... again I correct where you typed 'received', the word is 'receive' as you already acknowledged(I only mention it again for clarity here... to make sure we are understanding each other. )... Now I do not take this to mean that His apostle's received the Holy Spirit at that time, as the Gospels tell me that the Holy Spirit came to the apostles at Pentacost... after Jesus had risen, just as Jesus had said, the Holy spirit could not, and would not, come until He had gone. This is how I understand.Salaam, Caringheart
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truthnowcome
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Posted: 04 October 2012 at 10:51pm |
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Peace
Caringheart,
TNC You said:
In that post you said: �Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with his Apostle�� That is the reason I ask: �when Jesus (S) breathed on to the disciples if he breathed himself unto them� Jesus (S) said (and this is before he left): �...as my father hath sent me, even so i send you (the disciple) and when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said unto them, received ye the holy ghost.� (john.20:21-22) Did Jesus (S) bread himself into the disciples there? In the post below you change the tone, you said: ��Jesus had the Spirit of God...�
I know what is the Spirit of God, but you have to make up your mind If Jesus (S) is the Spirit that dwelleth with the disciples or if was the Spirit of God.
I am waiting, Peace!
TNC |
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LET'S SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL...NO MORE LIES!
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truthnowcome wrote:
)... Now I
do not take this to mean that His apostle's received the Holy Spirit at that
time, as the Gospels tell me that the Holy Spirit came to the apostles at
Pentacost... after Jesus had risen, just as Jesus had said, the Holy spirit
could not, and would not, come until He had gone. This is how I
understand.