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understanding Islam

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iec786 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote iec786 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 September 2012 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


Originally posted by iec786 iec786 wrote:

Hi Caringheart,

You see the line of questioning was what would you do if Christians were to come to your country.I would like to pose the same type of question to you.What do you expect to happen?The Muslims are not the people you per sieve us to be.The st**id oil rags with swords in our hands no that is not who we are.I live in a Christian country and in my business i meet 90% Christian clients.Not a day did we have an argument or i have not had a customer walk out of my business angry.I make sure when they walk out they are smiling.So the line of questioning was sarcastic and i gave an answer.

Now ,Oh yes i am going Mecca to pray and i am leaving South Africa on the 19 of September and i will return on the 03 November inshallah.

And don't be disappointed by my response.Take it in the spirit of dialog.
Greetings Ismail,I was surprised and disappointed to think that, after all of our dialogue, you would think that I have this view of Muslims.Yes, you live in a Christian country.� Do you enjoy freedom and equal treatment?Could a Christian expect the same if the country were to come under Islamic rule?What would you do if your country came under Islamic rule?� Would you treat these Christian people the same way that you do now?� That is the question.The line of questioning was not sarcastic, but quite serious.Salaam,Caringheart



Hi,I notice you do not know much of the history of South Africa.
We have been ruled by the white racist Christians for 300 years.    A Muslim was not allowed to preach or have houses of worship for many years.We were not allowed to bring scholars from other country's to come and teach Islam.We were not allowed to use a lift in a building which were for whites only.The signs used to read no blacks and dogs allowed.All races were regarded as black Indian,colored, Chinese were all put into a pot as black.European, Portuguese,French,and anything white in color were classified white.The last 16 years we have freedom from the white racist,we are still in a transition period.We have a slight improvement and only time will tell.That is my experience under a Christian run state.

If my country would come under Islamic rule wow we would have total rule of law.One nation freedom of religion,freedom of speech freedom of expression all this you will get but you will have to show some responsibility in all the freedoms you have.I will not treat the Christians the way they treated us.We were treated less then sub humans.
       
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2012 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by iec786 iec786 wrote:


Hi,I notice you do not know much of the history of South Africa.
We have been ruled by the white racist Christians for 300 years.    A Muslim was not allowed to preach or have houses of worship for many years.We were not allowed to bring scholars from other country's to come and teach Islam.We were not allowed to use a lift in a building which were for whites only.The signs used to read no blacks and dogs allowed.All races were regarded as black Indian,colored, Chinese were all put into a pot as black.European, Portuguese,French,and anything white in color were classified white.The last 16 years we have freedom from the white racist,we are still in a transition period.We have a slight improvement and only time will tell.That is my experience under a Christian run state.

If my country would come under Islamic rule wow we would have total rule of law.One nation freedom of religion,freedom of speech freedom of expression all this you will get but you will have to show some responsibility in all the freedoms you have.I will not treat the Christians the way they treated us.We were treated less then sub humans.
       


Greetings Ismail,
I guess I know a little about South Africa, and yes, I know it has not been good with British infringements there.  This however has to do with British rule not Christian rule.  The British have had a state defined church.  That is why so many left and went to America... the same reason... freedom of religion.  Christians left England for freedom of religion... the Puritans, the Quakers, the Amish, the Catholics... they all went to America.

I am the first to admit I have not been a history buff until very recently.  Most of what you speak of though has to do with racist issues... issues of color.

I did not know that religion as well was restricted, but it would make sense under British rule.  But how long ago did that end?

Are you completely sure that if Islam were to rule that the same treatment would not be meted out to others?  That others would not be treated just as badly as you have been treated?  It would be wonderful if this would not be so.  However, people of religion often have ideals that those who seize power do not follow.  It has taken many years for others to evolve.

Salaam,
Caringheart

You must be getting excited for your pilgrimage? Smile

[added note:  I'm sorry, I'm running out of time for research, so I'll ask you... Wouldn't South Africa be considered a secular nation?]

btw, I weep with you over the mistreatment of any human being. Cry


Edited by Caringheart - 03 September 2012 at 4:45pm
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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 September 2012 at 4:30pm
On the topic of Understanding Islam...

On another forum was asked this question,
 "i was wondering how did adam and eve's children have children if they were the only ones?",
which led me to reading this most interesting article.
http://islamic-world.net/khalifah/mans_vicegerency.htm

I think all here will find it interesting as well.  Please don't judge before reading.


Edited by Caringheart - 03 September 2012 at 4:42pm
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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2012 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Caringheart,
Islam is already here in this country where I live, the US.
Islam is submission to the Will of God. It is good, and it benefits the person following it willingly.
Hasan
Hasan,If you live in the U.S. then you live in a secular country.I am talking about, what if your country were to come under Islamic rule.What would happen to your friends?It is something everyone should be thinking about.Would you turn on your friends, who you know to be good people, because your religion said so?� Would you subject yourself to possible death, because in your unwillingness to turn on your friends, you could be killed since you can not renounce your faith in Islam?It is something everyone should be thinking about.It is the type of thing people were faced with in Germany under Hitler's rule.� People who had long been friends had to make the choice to either help those friends or to turn a blind eye to their fate.It is something everyone should be thinking about.Caringheart


Caringheart,
sorry I was away for a few days and just saw this post.
If my Christian friends were living under Islamic law? They will be better protected then even today's US laws, where I am not protected the same. If I have a hobby of remote control planes which I do but cannot practice, I must be very careful with that just because I am a Muslim, while my fellow non-Muslim Americans can enjoy the same hobby fearless. Daily there are attacks and injustices on Muslims take place and go without notice by main media intentionally.
If there is a real Islamic rule, it would protect all. In height of Islamic rule, when it was practiced to the core values, there were Jews, Christians and others lived in Muslim lands better than under even their own.

Hitler, you mentioned, himself thought to be doing what a good Christian suppose to do, he was wrong but he was a Bible reader.
Early Christians to the Americas claimed to be good Christians but their acts did not match with what they did to the natives, later with blacks, Mormons and others.
Islam does not say to turn against people of other faiths, rather to preach and discuss in a handsome way.
16:125 (Y. Ali) Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

2:256 (Y. Ali) Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

I remember it was actually the Bible that preached to kill those who worship to other gods and invite you to worship their gods.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 05 September 2012 at 3:07pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 September 2012 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

Caringheart,
Islam is already here in this country where I live, the US.
Islam is submission to the Will of God. It is good, and it benefits the person following it willingly.
Hasan
Hasan,If you live in the U.S. then you live in a secular country.I am talking about, what if your country were to come under Islamic rule.What would happen to your friends?It is something everyone should be thinking about.Would you turn on your friends, who you know to be good people, because your religion said so?� Would you subject yourself to possible death, because in your unwillingness to turn on your friends, you could be killed since you can not renounce your faith in Islam?It is something everyone should be thinking about.It is the type of thing people were faced with in Germany under Hitler's rule.� People who had long been friends had to make the choice to either help those friends or to turn a blind eye to their fate.It is something everyone should be thinking about.Caringheart


Caringheart,
sorry I was away for a few days and just saw this post.
If my Christian friends were living under Islamic law? They will be better protected then even today's US laws, where I am not protected the same. If I have a hobby of remote control planes which I do but cannot practice, I must be very careful with that just because I am a Muslim, while my fellow non-Muslim Americans can enjoy the same hobby fearless. Daily there are attacks and injustices on Muslims take place and go without notice by main media intentionally.
If there is a real Islamic rule, it would protect all. In height of Islamic rule, when it was practiced to the core values, there were Jews, Christians and others lived in Muslim lands better than under even their own.

Hitler, you mentioned, himself thought to be doing what a good Christian suppose to do, he was wrong but he was a Bible reader.
Early Christians to the Americas claimed to be good Christians but their acts did not match with what they did to the natives, later with blacks, Mormons and others.
Islam does not say to turn against people of other faiths, rather to preach and discuss in a handsome way.
16:125 (Y. Ali) Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

2:256 (Y. Ali) Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

I remember it was actually the Bible that preached to kill those who worship to other gods and invite you to worship their gods.
Hasan


Greetings Hasan, and welcome back,

Just a quick, short reply. Without getting into debate, I have to disagree with you. We do not live in a perfect world.
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honeto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 September 2012 at 2:43pm
Caringheart,
and that is my position, we are in a state of trial. I never said we live in a perfect world. We, and those who came before us and those who will come after us, all have to go through the same state of trial to avail our chance to follow the Will of God or reject it, to our own future of the hereafter.
Hasan

Edited by honeto - 06 September 2012 at 2:45pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Al Saadiqeen21 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Saadiqeen21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2014 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Abu Loren Abu Loren wrote:

Caringheart has an agenda on this forum and it is to poison the minds of the muslims worldwide.
 
Ever since I joined this forum s/he has stealthily tried to discredit the religion of Islam, prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala.
 
Topics and debates are veering off to Chrisitian fundamentalism.
 
I agree She master of trick's , Meaning she throw Rock's and then hide her Hands .
One doesn't go to school let His / her's mind to die , They go to school so that their mind will come alive .

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Caringheart View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2014 at 11:31pm
Originally posted by Jergg Jergg wrote:


... to engage in person-to-person dialogue with actual Muslims to learn what THEY think and how THEY view their beliefs.

If I have any agenda, Jergg said it perfectly.

As-salam alaykum,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 19 February 2014 at 11:33pm
Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever
"I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis
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