comparative studies

AhmadJoyia wrote: caringheart wrote: The penalty for sinful actions, comes in the form of the suffering one brings upon himself ... So, in essence, if I understood correctly, the process of entering into heaven, according to your version of Christianity, all starts from suffering one brings upon himself and offers nothing to support the suffering of the fellow human being as for him/her either to forgive or walk away. So, for any such justice, s/he should look for secular rules of the land.Hmm!! Is this not a drastic change in the outlook of a monotheistic religion with definite rules for such sinners, against the new version of religion where not only the 'mono' is changed to 'tri' and with it all other laws also got absolved? So, all the purpose for the Christians have about the OT is to only use it as an appendix for their NT and not really to implement its injunctions. In the absence of any man-made (secular) laws, do you really think, this view of Christianity can be called a safe system for any community, not only to survive but to thrive as well?

Greetings AhamadJoyia,
Please forgive;
do you misunderstand, or do you deliberately twist what I share with you?

I share again;
"is there any human punishment that can atone for such hurt?"
"Only God can exact judgement - no human punishment can remove the wounds, the damages, of sin"
"Justice belongs to God... no human can exact justice"

'all will be brought before the judgement seat'

It is a change, in the sense that God's wrath had no power to change humans, so He decides instead to show His Love... coming to us in the form of flesh, as the Son.
Through the prophet Isaiah, God told us in the Torah(the old testament) that He would be doing a new thing, and He asked His people, would they perceive it.
Isaiah 43
18 Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old.
19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it?

The new testament of God is hidden in the old
the old testament of God is revealed in the new

All becomes clear with the life and death of Yshwe.
He is the One that brings 'rivers of water in the desert' ... i.e., life

21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.
(these are the Christians)
He goes on to talk of how Jacob, Israel, has turned away.


As I have shared, Christianity allows for human laws.
Throughout both the old testament and the new testament we are told to obey those authorities which are over us here on earth,
and as Yshwe clearly reaffirms in His words,
'give unto Caesar what is Caesar's'

It is in entering heaven that we answer to a higher authority.
but yes, suffering brings repentance, and only repentance will bring us to God...
and my God has made clear that He wishes for no soul to be lost, but 'that all should come to repentance'.

When one of the disciples asked, 'how many times must I forgive?'

²² Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

If a man is killed without being given the chance (even many chances) for repentance, this does not serve God... not my God.
My God says that He
'is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

If we enact the human judgement then we may be in danger of the judgement of God upon ourselves.
for as Yshwe said;

² For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

³ And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

This is why He said, that 'he that is without sin may cast the first stone', when the adulteress was brought before Him.  (Do you not find it equally interesting that only the woman caught in adultery was brought for judgement?  It takes two.  These men were willing to condemn her, but it took a man to commit the sin with her.  How many had perhaps themselves committed the same sin?  What did Yshwe write in the sand?  Perhaps the names of the men that had been with this woman?)

None of us are without sin,
and none of us is fit to judge
that is the business of God.
So we should take care as to how we judge, and as to what punishment we see fit to give out, for we may be the one to come under the judgement of God.
That is the message.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart

Note: Can I share also...

and he who kills you will think he is doing God a service...

The following are the words of Yshwe recorded in the book of
John 16
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them.

It is not a service to the Creator when we kill His creation, this is doing a service to the one who wants to see the creation destroy itself.


Edited by Caringheart - 04 January 2016 at 11:32am

AhmadJoyia wrote: Given the +/- one century of authenticity, that too, through a Prophesy of a Prophet whose reign was about 6 to 7 century before the Jesus, with anonymous writing, and that too, not in its original language, is this the only evidence you have that you present to change everything in the Law? This is despite what you should be reading from the NT, where Jesus is quoted saying that not an iota would change but to fulfill the law. I am really surprised with your judgment.

Greetings AhmadJoyia,

I present:

2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.

3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
4 And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?

6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

This encounter with Yshwe, and His words, were recorded in the books of Matthew, Mark, and Luke.

Why do you suppose Yshwe made a point of saying, 'thy sins are forgiven'?
rather than saying 'ye are healed'?

Yshwe, time and again, showed that He was One with God,
with the power of God.
Who has the power to forgive sins, but God?
This was the reason Yshwe spoke as He did.

AhmadJoyia wrote:  �Death of Yshwe�? You mean the �Death of God�? Please help me?? I am really confused than ever before? Similarly, what do you mean by �life of Yshwe�? In Islam, this notion of �life and death� is only with the creatures and not for the Creator. For us God is ever present, always present.

Does not all flesh die?
Yes, the flesh must die.
God did not die... the flesh died, and was raised again to life.  This is the power of God.

AhmadJoyia wrote: You just can�t escape without answering my specific question that what happens if there is no �Caesar�? How would Christians run their affairs? In the absence of an appropriate answer, should this not bring into my comment that it appears that the Christianity is unable to provide a standalone, one complete composite system of life for humans on earth?

'unable to provide'?
Of course this is not true.
Are you not aware that the Israelites asked for God to appoint for them a ruler?

1 Samuel 8

And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.

2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beersheba.

3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.

4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,

5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.

6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord.

7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

The qur'an speaks of this as well, in surah 2.

God will always raise up a leader according to the hearts of the people.
If the hearts of the people are turned towards God then they will have Godly leaders.
Christians pray all the time, for their leaders.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 06 January 2016 at 7:56pm

AhmadJoyia wrote:   So, you mean, the Jesus in flesh was not God? So how was he God, if not in flesh?

Greetings AhmadJoyia,
Did I share a youtube video with you?

AhmadJoyia wrote:  Don�t you think that the human spirit also doesn�t die even though his flesh does?

Yes. Good. You come closer to understanding.

 

AhmadJoyia wrote: Thanks bro though only through futile argument of again quoting from the same sources that are historically inaccurate as shown above.

Are you saying then, that the qur'an is historically inaccurate?

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 08 January 2016 at 1:28pm

AhmadJoyia wrote: My dear brother Caringheart, I do see you missing out an important part of my reply. Was it deliberate, how can I be sure, I simply don't know. Here is my reply for your eyes only. ahmadjoyia wrote: This passage has nothing to do with �Changing the law�. Secondly, if you look carefully (highlighted in red within your quoted passage), Jesus is seen calling himself the son of man as a preferred title. If we take your perspective, do you think this is a willful bluff by God to His subjects? I don�t think so!! Hence your theory of Jesus as God is clearly false and the only logical explanation of this passage is that Jesus is speaking on the behalf of God as the fully authorized prophet to show many miracles including raising from the dead. It is also important to know that the Prophets are not ordinary human beings but the special ones who are specifically selected by the God and supported by special powers of showing Miracles. Their status in view of the God is very special as they are the ones who are made responsible to convey the God�s message to the human beings. IMHO, this could be one reason that my Christian brothers might get confused with such authoritative language Jesus speaks, but one must realize that it is only on God�s behalf. . I hope to find your guidance in this regards.

Greetings AhmadJoyia,

Apologies.  Sometimes I do not understand what it is you are meaning to say, or I do not see a question.  I only answer as the Spirit guides me to answer.

To your above I am guided tonight to say;

Yshwe was showing that He is the Law.
We know the things Yshwe said, as passed on by His Disciples...
He called Himself Son of man,
Son of God,
He called God His Father
He said, 'I and My Father are One'

It is in taking as a whole, all of the things which Yshwe said, that we see the picture of who Yshwe was.

He said many times to His Disciples,
'ye do not understand now', 'for it is not the time'
'I tell you things now, that you will understand later'
'I speak in parables that you will understand later'
'I go to a place where you can not follow'
'but I will not leave you alone, I will send the Comforter(the Holy Spirit to indwell them), but unless I go He can not come'
'tear down this temple and in 3 days I will rebuild it'

Many things Yshwe shared with His Disciples did not make sense to them until after all had been fulfilled...
but He also told them...
'I tell you these things now so that when they come to pass you will remember'

asalaam and blessings,
CAringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 10 January 2016 at 9:36pm