comparative studies

AhmadJoyia wrote: Greetings to you as well Bro Caringheart! Since the Christmas is approaching, I must specifically send my heartiest greetings to you and your loved ones.

Thank you so much!

AhmadJoyia wrote: So, you are saying that Yshwe is an Aramaic name? Can you refer me to this source since in my knowledge, this language is long extinct.

Greetings AhmadJoyia,
It was only after consulting several sources that I came to my conclusion that Yshwe is the form of the name that would have been used in His own time.  Yes, I do believe it was aramaic, but I can't say definitively without reviewing my earlier studies which I just don't have time to do.  Please forgive.

AhmadJoyia wrote: But in your example of adultery, the sin of cheating is against another human being. Do you think this formula of 'self punishment' would serve the Justice? Isn't it illogical or am I missing something here?

I needed time to think about this.
I consider the sin of adultery to be a personal sin... a thing that hurts ourselves... and that is why God calls it a sin....
but as I reflected, I reflect that you are correct  (ha! that all rhymed ),
adultery does also hurt the other person...
but,
is there any human punishment that can atone for such hurt?

I believe Yshwe was teaching us that the way to salvation is through mercy and forgiveness.

 The only thing that takes away the pain of sin, is repentance, and forgiveness, and beginning anew... as the Christians would put it... being born again.

 Yshwe came to teach us that as human beings we are all weak and sinful, and if our Father in heaven can forgive, then who are we not to?

He came to teach us that it is more important to show mercy on the weaknesses and failings of others, giving them the chance for repentance and redemption.  Does it not have greater impact on a person when they are forgiven,
when they know that they do not deserve that forgiveness? 
Is there a better way to change a heart?

We have the two parables (the two teachings of Yshwe)
1.  the woman whom He meets at the well, and to whom He reveals that her sins are not hidden but also does not punish her.  It is enough that her conscience has been stirred to recognize that her shame is not hidden and that she will one day reap the consequence if she continues in her sins.  She is only hurting herself and her eternal salvation.  People are more motivated when they see how they hurt themselves.

2.  the woman taken in adultery and Yshwe tells the townspeople... 'if ye have no sin then go ahead and cast the first stone'.  They all walk away, and Yshwe says to the woman;

Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

¹¹ She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Would someone given such a gracious second chance turn back to their sin, or more likely try to turn away from it?  To be saved from death has a way of making a great impact on people.

⁹ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

We love, because He first loved us.

Yshwe shows us the way to Love...

I am, the Way, the Truth, and the Life

asalaam and blessings to you,
Caringheart


 

Edited by Caringheart - 23 December 2015 at 2:21pm

AhmadJoyia wrote: Ok, so for Q1, you think this name is the original name given to Jesus by his mother? Is that what you mean or what? What was the original language of Jesus? For Q2, I guess you are saying that personal sins are no more punishable in Christianity. Am I correct? So don't you think this is clearly a changed Law and therefore a negation of Jesus's own fulfillment of the law? I must remind that forgiveness of a Sin, doesn't make the action non-sinful. Secondly, if so taken, you think all forms of adultery are personal sins? If so, What about the cheating of a spouse in Adultery etc? Do you think, it still remains a personal sin?

Greetings AhmadJoyia,

This turned into quite a long exposition. 

Question 1:
Yes, I came to this conclusion about a year ago in my studies.  I do not remember all the details of how I reached this conclusion. I know that part of it was when I purchased the Restoration Study Bible, which has both Hebrew and Greek concordances to refer to.
To the best of my recollection I would say that the language of Yshwe(known by the Greeks as Jesus) was Aramaic.

Question 2:
Personal sins are still punished, but the message of Christ is that we only punish ourselves when we disobey God and sin.  Without repentance we suffer the consequences of our sins.  God's commands are for our good, for our protection.  It is what gives us blessings in life... to follow the commands of God.
Yshwe leads us to repentance... to a changed way of life... to re-birth, through Love.
Yshwe does not change the laws of God, but Yshwe is the 'new thing' God promised.
The laws of the old testament are the laws of Moses given to the people of that time.  Those laws were incapable of bringing about a change in the behavior of God's people.  The purpose of the law was merely to make people aware of sin... those things which would be harmful to them.

'it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, �You must not covet.'

'Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.'

Yshwe admonished the Pharisees, the Jewish leaders, for 'laying heavy weights about the necks of the people [with laws of men] but providing no way for them to escape from their sins'.  In other words they preached only punishment, but not redemption, not recourse.  The law offered nothing in the way of hope and redemption.

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

The Apostle Paul puts it thus...
'for while we had the law, I yet remained in sin'
'the law had no power to make a change in me'

Yshwe is the fulfillment of the law... God's law... in that He leads away from sin by paying the penalty for our sins.
He described it thus...
'for no greater Love is there than that a man lay down his life for another'
He taught in a parable... recorded in the book of Matthew, chapter 18;
that there was a servant who owed a debt to his master, and the master took pity on him and forgave his debt.

26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.

If the Lord sends someone to pay our debt, would we refuse?
Would we 'trample under foot the blood of one who sacrificed his life for us'?
Can not the Lord send who He wishes to pay our debts, to forgive our sins, when we but turn to Him in worship?

'if my people who are called by my name will turn from their wicked ways and call out to me, I will hear from heaven and will heal their land'

For Scripture says: 'Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks upon the heart.'
The Pharisees and the people were consumed with judging by the outward appearance of things.

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Jesus reprimands against judging by appearance.

5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

The parable of Yshwe teaches as recorded in the book of Luke, chapter 18:

9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:

10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

the prophesy of Jeremiah, chapter 31

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

(This is a reference to the Holy Spirit which the followers of Yshwe received on Pentacost Sunday, and which the followers of Christ(Messiah) continue to receive to this day)

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 Psalm 103
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

Yshwe was, and is, the fulfillment of these prophesies.

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart


Edited by Caringheart - 16 December 2015 at 8:47pm

AhmadJoyia wrote: Though I am not very fond of discussing things out of anonymous books, however, for this particular passage only, I can put my two coins into it: 1. First of all, I don't know who is Yshwe? Is he Jesus PBUH or someone else or same personality but with some other status? This is because I did not find it in English translated Bible that I have. 2. With this passage, what should I conclude about the Adultery in Christianity? Is it no more sinful? But if it is sinful, then what is its punishment? Is it no more stoning to death? Or it is totally abolished? Your allusion that it is no more sinful, is not supported by your own text that you have quoted. Here are my arguments with the evidence from your own bible. (a) Jesus said he came not to change the law but to fulfill it. Hence, total abolition of any law, and not just this one, is contrary to his own statement. (b) In this passage, all we know is that Jesus took an exception in forgiving this lady, but did remind her not to do the adultery again by saying go, and sin no more This is only possible if Jesus still considered adultery to be sinful.

Greetings AhmadJoyia,

Yes, I have come to the habit of rendering the name of the Messiah as it would have been rendered in His own time, and in His own language... Yshwe... to the best of my understanding.

It seems to me that Yshwe(known as Jesus) was teaching that no human being has the right to punish another human being for their personal sins, since we are all sinful beings.
Yshwe made a point of teaching that we are all sinful, as His Disciple John tells us;
 'if any claims not to have sin, he is a liar, and deceives himself'


Here is what I consider a good exposition on the subject:

 In saying, �Go and sin no more,� Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices. His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of �grace and truth� (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God�s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15).

 When we turn to Christ and receive His forgiveness, we experience a heart change (Luke 9:23; Acts 1:8).
 Rather than continue in the self-centered path that led us astray from Him to begin with, the forgiven can walk in God�s path (Luke 14:27).

Yshwe fulfills the law in that, 'He' himself, is the forgiveness for sins...

what was He always telling people when He healed them?  He said to them, 'your sins are forgiven'.... this was to make the point... God has the power to forgive sins, and by turning to God and from sinful ways we are healed

instead of human punishment, we are afforded Divine forgiveness, healing from our wicked ways.

It is this mercy and grace... this depth of forgiveness... one man laying down His life for us... that changes us at the very depth of our being and leads us from sinfulness when we acknowledge the sacrifice that was made for our salvation. 
We are led to Love(which is God)
... for, 'we love because He first loved us', and 'there is no greater love than this, than a man lay down his life for another'.  (1 John 4, John 15)

This is the 'new thing' God promised in Isaiah 43;
19 Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it?

asalaam and blessings,
Caringheart




Edited by Caringheart - 12 December 2015 at 10:33am

Caringheart wrote: AhmadJoyia wrote: Caringheart wrote: Where Muhammad (or the qur'an, or islam) teaches that it is ok to stone to death a woman for adultery,Yshwe (known as Jesus) teaches exactly the opposite. IMHO, there are no verses in Quran that teaches it is ok to stone to death a woman for adultery! You should provide your evidence from Quran, if you think otherwise! Hopefully, your distorted ideas about Islam may get corrected. Best regards. Greetings AhmadJoyia,The qur'an says: 24:2 "The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment." so, 100 lashes, which is not the same as stoning.The hadith do speak of stoning for adultery.and there is this..........

Thanks for bringing both Quran and Hadith on the table, in this issue. Here we know that there can't be two punishments for the same crime. So, in essence, since Quran is very explicit in this issue, therefore Ahadith status is not acceptable about this crime. Secondly, it is very likely that the incidences of punishment of stoning that is being quoted in the Ahadith must have taken place prior to the revelations of clear verses in Quran. Therefore, IMHO, there is no stoning to death punishment in Islam. Those who still profess it, their logic to implement is not better than delusional.