786

For bro rami,

Brother, how did you verify this numerical juglary (the one referenced by bro Dayem) is the same as the one you heard in the hadith?

Secondly, there are people who even claim "magic" to be some sort of science, would it justify its legitimacy from within Islam? I don't think so.

The jews were assigning neumerical values to each letter, you would have to read the hadith your self to understand it better, but youre right i could be mistaken. I was once at a lecture of a very knowledgable shaykh some time ago and he was explaining this topic, i cant remember what he said exactly but he did mention the hadith and the issue of 768 in the same lecture, that is weak evidence since i cant remember what he said but it is a link.

Legitimacy and actualy existance are tow different issues, magic is not permisable/legitimate in Islam but most certianly it is a science not jumbled pieces of information. Look at many ahadith about the lives of prophets people used to be able to predict the future from the stars this was never denied, it became haram when they began to worship them.

For those thinking it no what people do today regarding the stars is not remotey the same.

Though I don't disagree with this part of the website that you quoted brother Dayem : "This tradition is not from the time of the Prophet -peace be upon him- or his Sahabah. It developed much later, perhaps during the later 'Abbasid period. We do not know of any reputable Imams or Jurists who used this number instead of the Bismillah. ", but kindly note that as bro rami has also pointed out, the site is not a reliable source especially once he forces his claim to justify the significance of number 19 in Quran and end up saying that it has some extra verses. Its just a word of caution to be carefull while consulting this source.

For bro rami,

Brother, how did you verify this numerical juglary (the one referenced by bro Dayem) is the same as the one you heard in the hadith?

Secondly, there are people who even claim "magic" to be some sort of science, would it justify its legitimacy from within Islam? I don't think so.

abeer wrote: I have heard of this science

Q 2. I never quite understood the idea behind the number "786". Is it possible for you to explain its significance at your earliest convenience? (Asim)

A 2. "786" is the total value of the letters of "Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim". In Arabic there are two methods of arranging letters. One method is the most common method known as the alphabetical method. Here we begin with Alif, ba, ta, tha etc. The other method is known as the Abjad method or ordinal method. In this method each letter has an arithmetic value assigned to it from one to one thousand. The letters are arranged in the following order: Abjad, Hawwaz, Hutti, Kalaman, Sa'fas, Qarshat, Sakhaz, Zazagh. This arrangement was done, most probably in the 3rd century of Hijrah during the 'Abbasid period, following other Semitic languages such as Phoenician, Aramaic, Hebrew, Syriac, Chaldean etc.

If you take the numeric values of all the letters of the Basmalah, according to the Abjad order, the total will be 786. In the Indian subcontinent the Abjad numerals became quite popular. Some people, mostly in India and Pakistan, use 786 as a substitute for Bismillah. They write this number to avoid writing the name of Allah or the Qur'anic ayah on ordinary papers. This tradition is not from the time of the Prophet -peace be upon him- or his Sahabah. It developed much later, perhaps during the later 'Abbasid period. We do not know of any reputable Imams or Jurists who used this number instead of the Bismillah.

Editor's note:

Earlier Muslim scholar Fakhreddin Ar-Razi, in his famous book et-Tafsir-ul Kabir, links the 19 letters of Basmalah with 19 guardians of Hell. Other scholars did not question the number of letters in Basmalah until after the discovery of the the mathematical miracle of the Quran.

To read about the history of the gematrical value of letters, Please  see our page at :

http://www.submission.org/miracle/gematrical.html

Here is a table explaining the above answer

See also Ahmad Deedat 's book (below) where he showed the 19 letters of Basmallah

For more about the mathematical Miracle of verse 1, sura 1, (Basmallah) check our file at; http://www.submission.org/beyond.html

For greater detail about the mathematical miracle, check our page at; http://www.submission.org/miracle/

interesting and different answers here.

Do any of you know this ahadith that rami has mentioned?