God�s written instructions for life. |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Usmani, What better way to win someone's devotion than to die for them? "Greater love has no man than this, but that he lay down his life for another" 12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. - the words of Yeshua, who came to set the example of Love. As Paul says in his letter to the Hebrews; 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?It is precisely that it is so counter-intuitive, what God has done to save us, that makes it so compelling that it could only come from God alone. Salaam and blessings to you, CH Edited by Caringheart - 30 June 2013 at 9:04pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Usmani
Senior Member Male Joined: 07 September 2006 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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Dear Bronaz,
You Said: Which father would not suffer so his child is better? If you are a father would you risk your life to save your son. God is no different. Me: you righty said in my case I will suffer and even risk my life to save my son, But God Almighty is different, He has so much power that He can do anything without suffering, isn�t. you said: God created Angels, Lucifer thought that he was superior to humans and refused to worship God if he made himself Man, which is why he was cast into hell. Me:He refused to prostrate before Adam the first human created by God Almighty. This event refer to the skies while according to Christians God came to human form in this world not in skies. Satan problem was he doesn�t want human superiority over him and he refuse to follow God commandant to prostrate Adam. This is the Islamic version. I do not know how Bible explain this event. You said: My concepts are very clear. I believe Jesus to be God because he himself says so John 8: 58 "Very truly I tell you," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!". This is how God refers to himself when Moses asks him, what name shall he call him and he says "I AM". 2. Jesus is God because a virgin conceived him and the Angel Gabriel specifically says he will be called Son of the Most high Luke 1 : 32. Me: These are not clear statements to assume that Jesus (pbuh) claim divinity. On the other hand there are statements of Jesus (pbuh) where he said 1) My father is greater than I 2) I my own can do nothing I follow the will of my father Further more in the whole Bible Jesus never said that I am God or Worship me. So what you have bring from the Bible and what I have bring from the Bible, any person who have eyes from them he can see the reality, who have ears from them he can hear the truth, from his heart and mind he do fair analyze keeping in view that one day I have to stand before Almighty God, can never come the conclusion that Jesus is God. You Said: The Old Testament is filled with prophecy of the coming of the Messiah. Me: Messiah is not God, Jew were not waiting for the God arrival, check with any jew |
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Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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NABA
Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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dear bronaz in my post I clearly mentioned about the dialouge regarding I am,if u say that Allah says I Am God to Moses(pbuh),means u want to say if someone says "I am",he is god?????that's truly illogical and funny,in gospel of mark ch 24 v 36-Jesus christ(pbuh) says nobody knows about the last hour nor man no angels of heaven,my father only knows.If Jesus christ(pbuh) is god then he should know when the final hour will come,this proves Jesus christ(pbuh) was not God,he is one of the most important prophets of Allah and its a duty of a Muslim to respect him,but Jesus Christ(pbuh) is not God.Allah in Qur'an says in ch 31 v 34-the knowledge of final hour is known only to Allah.
Edited by NABA - 27 June 2013 at 10:03am |
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bronaz
Groupie Joined: 21 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Well, Usmani and Naba,
Usmani says God can do anything for his child, he doesnt have to die to accomplish salvation for him. How would God prove that he loves us???He could have chosen any way to save humans but chose to take the form of man, live with us and show us the way...it is the ULTIMATE. The Quran has a set of instructions, follow them get to heaven, dont follow them go to hell. In all I would say that the God of the Quran is very impersonal, some one who really not interested in what happens to man. Compare that with the Christian God of care and compassion that he chooses to live with us, share our burdens, so we humans can really know what God is like and what he wants of us, because he has done the same things himself. What an example? So we have different versions of a God..Which is more real?? Which is the true God? I would say the one that assures you get to heaven. For one thing I am sure that when I ask forgiveness from God for whatever my sin, I know that I am forgiven about which there is no certainty in Islam |
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Usmani
Senior Member Male Joined: 07 September 2006 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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Greeting Carringheart and bronaz,
See carringhart and bronaz,if you keep ignoring the realities and truth than you are only living in the paradise of fools. There are already enough things which show the love and blessing of God like giving us life, health, money, loving parents, various kind of foods and sun, moon, stars all are there for human service, these blessings are uncountable. We are here in this world for a test and only those who pass the test will go to paradise. Since very beginning, there are prophets of God are coming here to tell us the very purpose of life and what is the test. There is no need of God scarifies .Jesus (pbuh) is not God,He is a great Prophet of God. We have seen even the Bible available now adays, does not saying that,you people are interpreting these verses of Bible in a way that Jesus (pbuh) is God. You are not taking seriously where Jesus (pbuh) said in the Bible, in my own words (I have to tell you many things but you cannot bear them now, the spirit of truth will come and he will tell you. Jesus (pbuh) are informing about another Messenger of God will come and this Messenger is no other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).Quran tell that there was even the name of coming Prophet was mentioned in the original Bible as �Ahmed� which is the another famous name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). I know people have lots of problems with Islam and believe me they are just misconceptions and they could easily be removed if one willing to understand Islam without being biased. The picture I got of God from you is more like a helpless human rather than a God. You have misunderstood God carringheart and bronaz, and the worst part is that you are not ready to see the true picture of God. This life is test for us and if we fail this test than the consequence are very serious. This is like if you are appearing in the exams and question paper is given to you and someone come and say that you don�t need to solve the paper, you will be given full marks just do this and this. The test is the way of life is very much found in details in Islam, this tell us about the 24 hours of life is really incredible and can never be a human work. True friend is the one who shows the true picture. Best Regards, Usmani |
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Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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NABA
Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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at bronaz,Allah is most merciful and forgiving,the best example is this-ch 28 v 84-if U do a good deed Allah will reward U better than its merit,for a bad deed Allah may punish U according to sin or forgive U if U repent.this verse should change ur mind.don't try to make ur opinion about Allah,as rightly said there is nothing like him(ch 112 v 4),Allah is way above our imagination.
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Usmani, I don't feel like you read what I wrote and that you are mainly responding to Bronaz. Perhaps this is because of the great delay by the moderators in allowing my reply to you. You see, I agree with you... we are here in this life to prove ourselves worthy to enter the eternal kingdom of the Creator. However, you had asked why would God need to come to us in the form of a human son, and die for us? From the beginning it has been believed that God requires sacrifice for salvation, and what greater sacrifice than a man lay down his life for another? What greater way to win the love of another? That was what I responded to. Salaam, Caringheart |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Interestingly enough, I was doing some research on Ghandi and came across this, which seemed actually quite relevant to the discussion that we have been having here.
How could one man�s death on a cheap, wooden cross reconcile mankind to God? Why does our perplexed, religiously diverse world struggle with such a possibility? Edited by Caringheart - 29 June 2013 at 4:01pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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