God�s written instructions for life. |
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Usmani
Senior Member Male Joined: 07 September 2006 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 12:45pm |
Greeting Carringheart,
What you have posted from Bible are not the words of Jesus (pbuh) .I show you what Jesus (pbuh) said and act in Bible. John 16:12-15 12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. John 20:17 Yeshua said to her. �Don't cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to join my Father, and go join my brothers and say to them that I ascend to join my Father and your Father, my God, and your God.� John 5:30 I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. Matthew 26:36-44 36. Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray." 37. He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me." 39. Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." 40. Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter. 41. "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak." 42. He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done." 43. When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, SAYING THE SAME THING. So are you going worship the one Jesus prayed to? Or are you going to worship Jesus? Logically you worship the one Jesus prayed to. Secondly just say you were alive at Jesus� time and you were with him, and you knew he prayed to God and so on, would you honestly believe he is God? Off course not! It gets worse as Jesus himself claims he has a God: |
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Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Usmani, 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; You may recall my previous statement: Salaam, Caringheart Edited by Caringheart - 30 June 2013 at 9:06pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Usmani
Senior Member Male Joined: 07 September 2006 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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bronaz,
You said:Usmani says God can do anything for his child, he doesn't have to die to accomplish salvation for him. How would God prove that he loves us???He could have chosen any way to save humans but chose to take the form of man, live with us and show us the way...it is the ULTIMATE. Me: If you could save your child with little effort, why you would die? And if you die than it is foolish thing to do. Please don�t associate this foolish act with God at least. You said:The Quran has a set of instructions, follow them get to heaven, dont follow them go to hell. In all I would say that the God of the Quran is very impersonal, someone who really not interested in what happens to man. Me: It not true, He has given us so many things as I stated in my earlier post, these all shows His love, but He also wants us to test before sending us in heaven and for that this life He has designed. He has given us wisdom to reach to truth and all require energy to follow His instructions and if we also love him, we will do not much involve our self to these small small wordily pleasures and benefits. If he says pray five times a days so we must pray even if have to compromise some worldly affairs and if says give to others what you like for yourself, so we must do that even it may sometimes hard for us to do that and through these set of instructions, He is testing us. You said: Compare that with the Christian God of care and compassion that he chooses to live with us, share our burdens, so we humans can really know what God is like and what he wants of us, because he has done the same things himself. What an example? So we have different versions of a God..Which is more real?? Which is the true God? I would say the one that assures you get to heaven. For one thing I am sure that when I ask forgiveness from God for whatever my sin, I know that I am forgiven about which there is no certainty in Islam Me: The God who have created us and He has to live with us to know us to know our problems. He has to die for us. If you think this is the real God then something very seriously wrong with you my friend. You said there is no certainty in Islam, brother this uncertainty is a power which keep a Muslim on his toes and resulting his performance is keep improving day by day. We just have one short of live and we don�t want to sleep over it. |
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Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Interestingly enough, I was doing some research on Ghandi and came across this, which seemed actually quite relevant to the discussion that we have been having here.
How could one man�s death on a cheap, wooden cross reconcile mankind to God? Why does our perplexed, religiously diverse world struggle with such a possibility? Edited by Caringheart - 29 June 2013 at 4:01pm |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Greetings Usmani, I don't feel like you read what I wrote and that you are mainly responding to Bronaz. Perhaps this is because of the great delay by the moderators in allowing my reply to you. You see, I agree with you... we are here in this life to prove ourselves worthy to enter the eternal kingdom of the Creator. However, you had asked why would God need to come to us in the form of a human son, and die for us? From the beginning it has been believed that God requires sacrifice for salvation, and what greater sacrifice than a man lay down his life for another? What greater way to win the love of another? That was what I responded to. Salaam, Caringheart |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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NABA
Senior Member Male Joined: 13 December 2012 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 867 |
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at bronaz,Allah is most merciful and forgiving,the best example is this-ch 28 v 84-if U do a good deed Allah will reward U better than its merit,for a bad deed Allah may punish U according to sin or forgive U if U repent.this verse should change ur mind.don't try to make ur opinion about Allah,as rightly said there is nothing like him(ch 112 v 4),Allah is way above our imagination.
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Usmani
Senior Member Male Joined: 07 September 2006 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 184 |
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Greeting Carringheart and bronaz,
See carringhart and bronaz,if you keep ignoring the realities and truth than you are only living in the paradise of fools. There are already enough things which show the love and blessing of God like giving us life, health, money, loving parents, various kind of foods and sun, moon, stars all are there for human service, these blessings are uncountable. We are here in this world for a test and only those who pass the test will go to paradise. Since very beginning, there are prophets of God are coming here to tell us the very purpose of life and what is the test. There is no need of God scarifies .Jesus (pbuh) is not God,He is a great Prophet of God. We have seen even the Bible available now adays, does not saying that,you people are interpreting these verses of Bible in a way that Jesus (pbuh) is God. You are not taking seriously where Jesus (pbuh) said in the Bible, in my own words (I have to tell you many things but you cannot bear them now, the spirit of truth will come and he will tell you. Jesus (pbuh) are informing about another Messenger of God will come and this Messenger is no other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).Quran tell that there was even the name of coming Prophet was mentioned in the original Bible as �Ahmed� which is the another famous name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). I know people have lots of problems with Islam and believe me they are just misconceptions and they could easily be removed if one willing to understand Islam without being biased. The picture I got of God from you is more like a helpless human rather than a God. You have misunderstood God carringheart and bronaz, and the worst part is that you are not ready to see the true picture of God. This life is test for us and if we fail this test than the consequence are very serious. This is like if you are appearing in the exams and question paper is given to you and someone come and say that you don�t need to solve the paper, you will be given full marks just do this and this. The test is the way of life is very much found in details in Islam, this tell us about the 24 hours of life is really incredible and can never be a human work. True friend is the one who shows the true picture. Best Regards, Usmani |
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Engage your self in good deeds,otherswise yours nafs will engage you in bad deeds
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bronaz
Groupie Joined: 21 May 2013 Status: Offline Points: 45 |
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Well, Usmani and Naba,
Usmani says God can do anything for his child, he doesnt have to die to accomplish salvation for him. How would God prove that he loves us???He could have chosen any way to save humans but chose to take the form of man, live with us and show us the way...it is the ULTIMATE. The Quran has a set of instructions, follow them get to heaven, dont follow them go to hell. In all I would say that the God of the Quran is very impersonal, some one who really not interested in what happens to man. Compare that with the Christian God of care and compassion that he chooses to live with us, share our burdens, so we humans can really know what God is like and what he wants of us, because he has done the same things himself. What an example? So we have different versions of a God..Which is more real?? Which is the true God? I would say the one that assures you get to heaven. For one thing I am sure that when I ask forgiveness from God for whatever my sin, I know that I am forgiven about which there is no certainty in Islam |
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