The Holy Gospel did not evolve!

Ahmadi Muslim,

   You make a distinction between "Islam's God" and refer to Judaism and Christianity as "man-made" religions. This is the point that I have made repeatedly, that, for all the talk about "People of the Book," in reality the "God" of Islam is NOT the same God as that of the "People of the Book" Jews and Christians (and Sabeans, who were pagans), thanks for clearing that point up.

   You call Islam "the original religion of Abraham." But the Jews and Christians recognized Abraham as one of the first Jewish Patriarchs millenia, in the case of Jews and centuries, in the case of Christians, before Islam ever existed. Also, "Abraham" or "Ibrahim" are not Arabic names, the true Arabic form of Abraham is "Abu Raheem."

   For Islam to conveniently say that it was the "original" religion of God is simply a statement with no basis in fact. This historical "revisionism" is a common characteristic of Islam and Muslims. Show me ANY historical proof, by ANY ancient writer or historian, outside of Islam and the Qur'an, that shows that Islam or Muhammad existed prior to the 7th century C.E.

   I can show historical written ancient works, such as those of Flavius Josephus and many Roman writers and historians, that show that Judaism has been a faith for more than three thousand years and that Christianity has been a faith for more than two thousand years.

   You continually use the Qur'an to make your points, but the Qur'an is not a "source" that is accepted by historians in relation to which religions were the earliest and which came later. Just as it would be if I used the Bible as the source material to prove that Christianity is the only "true" religion. But there are many widely-accepted ancient sources outside of the Bible that back up the statements and beliefs of both the Jews and Christians.

   And I repeat that the "prophet" Muhammad himself never made ANY "prophecies" that were later fulfilled after the writing of the Qur'an. This is the standard for true prophets of God in the Old Testament or Torah. And this is a primary reason why Jews and Christians reject Islam as the "true" religion of God.

Larry



Edited by Larry - 12 September 2012 at 2:39am

Hasan,

   You are the one who brought up the "Santa Claus thingy," so don't act like that I am trying to "divert" attention from other things.

   And yes, the Bible was written by 66 different authors, you seem to think that because the Qur'an was "written" by one person, that that is what makes it the "true" holy text. But there are no source materials for the Qur'an because any previous writings and sources that were in it prior to Uthman's "standardized" copy were completely destroyed by Muslim authorities, which made authenticating the text impossible.

   The Bible has a coherent form, that moves from the beginning to the end that is logical, historically accurate (There are many ancient sources that back up the Bible's historical writings), contains extensive geneaologies of Old Testament Patriarchs and prophets, etc. The amazing thing about the Bible is that with 66 different writers the form, cohesiveness and linear structure, along with a high degree of accuracy and agreement between the different writers is remarkable.

   The Qur'an has no logical form or commentary, it is simply put together by using the lengths of the various "chapters" to determine its form and it is repetitive, has many discrepancies (one, in particular, the different number of days that God used to create the world), is verbose and the style and content changes from Muhammad's time in Mecca and then later in Medina, and includes in many places, Muhammad, his immmediate family, his allies, his enemies, etc. Why would revelations from God Himself concern Muhammad, his personal life, his actions, family and financial details that say how much money the "prophet" and his family are entitled to from any spoils of war or other "income."

   There are also variant copies of the Qur'an, namely, those of Ibn Masud, who does not include Chapters 1, 113 and 114, and Ubay B Ka'ab who has two additional chapters, Surah al-Khal and Surah al-Afd, not found in Uthman's astandardized version.

   Sorry, but I simply don't buy it. I am very happy to say that I have complete faith in the Bible and in it's prophecies, histories, geneaologies, poetry, musical forms, and message. Whether or not you accept that is irrelevant to me.

   There is an interesting article concerning the contents, histories, stories, form, etc. of the Qur'an at;

   http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/quran.htm

Larry

Edited by Larry - 12 September 2012 at 2:36am

Friendship,

   You did not comment on my post that showed that there are non-Arabic words in the Qur'an. Do you have an answer as to why, since supposedly there is a pure Arabic Qur'an in heaven that is identical to the Qur'an here on earth?

Larry

Assalamu alaika Larry.

Yes indeed, the source of Qur'an meaning to 'read' and to 'compare' is derived from the languages of Jurhum and that spoken in Palestine up to the time the mother of Ishmael left Palestine. Let us learn from the philologists. There are words that are spoken from the neighbouring countries like Muhsanat, Kahanama Iranian word changed to Jahannama, Ra'ina a Hebraic word changed to 'unzurna' etc. I do not speak Hebrew but there are a lot of words that have a common root with Arabic.
All verses starting with prophetic say, are Arabiciseds. The medinan Arabs did not know the meaning of the abbreviated alphabets unlike the Levi clan. So when the alphabets for example  A-L-M were revealed, their leader came to the holy Apostle and said your kingdom is going to last for 41 years for A=30, L=10, M=1 (or in a reverse form). Muhammad did not argue with him.  Understand that whenever the holy Apostle addressed those with Islam before him, they never disputed with him.
Larry! There is inconsistency between what you claim to profess with that in the time of Muhammad. Those Christians and Jews in his time never denied his Message. Now you cannot say today their Torah and Bible were adulterated and that what is with you today is the authentic one. Don't be biased please and use your faculty to understand Allah. Be independent and a slave!
I hope I have answered you. I am waiting for your answer also.

Friendship.