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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saved Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2016 at 1:49pm
Originally posted by islamispeace islamispeace wrote:

I agree with Bunter about the virgin birth.� That is simply a matter of faith, as it is with Muslims.� But the second topic is definitely interesting.� Christians make all sorts of arguments to try to exonerate Paul, but as with many of their arguments, there are many inconsistencies which they try very hard to ignore. �
This is not about Paul; he didn't come up with the virgin birth story. This topic is mainly about the virgin birth of Jesus which is original and unique only to the gospel along with the blessed reason. But now that you mentioned it, what are the inconsistencies with Paul?

Edited by Saved - 06 November 2016 at 5:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saved Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2016 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by syed_z syed_z wrote:


Originally posted by Saved Saved wrote:

The gospel also gives the reason for His virgin birth, but the Quran gives no reason as to why Jesus had to have been born of a virgin.
The law was never abolished; it was fulfilled by Jesus, and through Him, we fulfill the law also; without Him, instead of fulfilling the law, we will be judged by the law!

PBUY,
Al
Saved,Again You made a claim from the Quran that you did not provide a proof for. This makes us ask question whether you are here to truly learn about Islam or contradict Islam?The Quran does explain why Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) was born of a Blessed Virgin Mary and I can show you but I want you to show me because you just made a false claim against the Quran!Thats Sad....

Syed_z:

I actually see it the other way around. That is this thread is making a false statement about the gospel, but I explained to you how the law hadn't been abolished.

Instead of going off topic by questioning my motives and speaking for others instead of yourself alone, why don't you show the proof that I said something untrue or made a false claim. Just because a claim is made that you don't agree with doesn't make it false.

All I said is the Virgin Birth of Jesus is original only to the gospel along with the reason. I looked for the reason in the Quran and couldn't find why he had to have been born of a virgin. What is the reason for Jesus' virgin birth in the Quran, and why does this appear to offend you?

Keep in mind this is supposed to be an open debate.

I am learning from your reactions to my comments. Do you want to just have a one sided discussion or debate only?

PBUY,
Al



Edited by Saved - 06 November 2016 at 2:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote syed_z Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2016 at 9:04am
Originally posted by Saved Saved wrote:

The gospel also gives the reason for His virgin birth, but the Quran gives no reason as to why Jesus had to have been born of a virgin.
The law was never abolished; it was fulfilled by Jesus, and through Him, we fulfill the law also; without Him, instead of fulfilling the law, we will be judged by the law!

PBUY,
Al


Saved,

Again You made a claim from the Quran that you did not provide a proof for. This makes us ask question whether you are here to truly learn about Islam or contradict Islam?

The Quran does explain why Jesus, son of Mary (alaihi Salaam) was born of a Blessed Virgin Mary and I can show you but I want you to show me because you just made a false claim against the Quran!

Thats Sad....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saved Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 October 2016 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by IssaEl999 IssaEl999 wrote:

<FONT face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" color=#000066>Ques ; The Immaculate Conception Of Mary That Christians ( Preach True ) ?
Ques ; How Does The Self Apointed� Saul , Shaool , Paul Justify Abolishing The Law ?
You are the one asking a question, but you were asked to back up why your question about Paul abolishing the law should be considered valid being that is one of rules on forum to show your source. You show your inferences from certain verses but they are out of context.

As for the virgin birth of Jesus, that information was borrowed from the gospel of Matthew; there is no other common or mutual source of that original message but from the uncorrupted gospel.

The gospel also gives the reason for His virgin birth, but the Quran gives no reason as to why Jesus had to have been born of a virgin.
The law was never abolished; it was fulfilled by Jesus, and through Him, we fulfill the law also; without Him, instead of fulfilling the law, we will be judged by the law!

PBUY,
Al

Edited by Saved - 31 October 2016 at 1:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Webber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 January 2013 at 10:13pm
Every once in a while someone wonders how they can look like they know something and have compiled information without doing the real work, so they hit answering-christianity.com, or some similar and find exactly what they were looking for. Or so they think. Sorry, I couldn't help but comment.

Quote If Saul , Shaool , Paul was going to teach the Gentiles then he should have been converting them to the teaching and the laws of the person whom he claimed to be receiving all of these visions

Paul was a missionary; his job was to convert Gentiles, pagans, idol worshippers, w/e to Christianity, not to make Jews out of them.  Muhammad didn't make Jews out of Arabs either.  

Quote Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Said ; Keep the Sabbath ( Mark 2 ; 27 ) circumcise male children on the 8th day ( Luke 2 ; 21 ) .

Jesus actually said the Sabbath was created for man, not man for the Sabbath. In its context, which is more than three (not in the verse) words, Jesus was refuting the Scribes and Pharisees for their criticism of the disciples who weren�t fasting on the Sabbath, were picking corn on the Sabbath, and His curing a boy with palsy on the Sabbath. According to the Pharisees and scribes all this was unlawful yet Jesus did and allowed His disciples to do these things on the Sabbath.  How does that interpret to �Keep the Sabbath�?

The same as your reference to Luke 2:21. Jesus was 8 days old and circumcised. Was this by His own orders? What child has authority to say or do anything about it at 8 days old? This is not a command of Jesus but a record to show He was circumcised, as were all Jews according to the law given Moses.

 

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul ; Circumcision is not necessary ( Romans 2 ; 26 ) all you need is '' circumcison of the heart '' ( Romans 2 ; 29 ) that is going against what Jesus Christ said in John 7 ; 22 - 23 . The word ANTI meaning , '' to go against '' so Anti - Christ means to go against anything that Jesus Christ taught .

Paul merely brought out the logic. If you are circumcised yet do not follow the law what good is it to you? If circumcision was the only way to heaven then every American soldier will be there.  Paul cautioned his people more about UNcircumcising themselves through their other sins.  See how context makes a difference?

 

Quote Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus Said ; Unless you are baptized you shall not see the kingdom of God ( John 3 ; 3 -5 ) .

This is a total misrepresentation. Wow, if anyone screwed up the Quran like this you�d be all over them. This is the corruption of the Bible right here. It�s called Muslim manipulation. The Quran warns of this, Muslims think it was way back when. It still happens.  Where is the word baptized used in this passage and in what translation? None. There is no reference to baptism here at all. What does it make reference to? Rebirth. Ye must be born again. By the logic you propose we were all baptized when our mother�s water broke. The point Jesus was making was a spiritual awakening, a rejuvenation of the mind by the Holy Spirit of God.

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul ; You are saved by accepting Jesus ; he does not mention Baptism ( Roman 10 ; 9 - 10 ) .

At least Paul knew what Jesus was talking about. Romans 12:2 Paul says; And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

Quote The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; In 2Chronicles 7 ; 12 - 16 , it says that , the Lord dwells in chosen temples , a law through Mosheh , Musa , Moses ,

Please do me a favor and read 2 Chronicles 7:12 � 16 and tell me where/how it says that.  Middle of verse 14 it says �Then I will hear from Heaven� It ends with �My eyes and my heart will be there perpetually. Who are Gods eyes? There are other places in the OT where it speaks of angels in the temples. It would seem by some of the descriptions that these angels were visable.

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; in Acts 7 ; 48 , '' The Most High does not dwell in temples , '' God dwells in light in 1Timothy 6 ; 16 says Saul , Shaool , Paul

Paul must have been talking about God being in heaven, kinda like God said he was in 7:14.

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; Anger is approved by him in Ephesians 4 ; 26 , as well as , in Proverbs 22 ;24 .

LOL, Paul says;  ï¿½ Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath� No idea how you get the �as well as� to Proverbs. Paul didn�t write Proverbs�

 

Quote The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; It is law that every man - child be circumcised in Genesis 17 ; 10 , Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; You will gain nothing if you are circumcised in Galatians 5 ; 2 .

The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy in Exodus 20 ; 8 ,

 Saul , Shaool , Paul says ;Don't judge a man who does not keep the Sabbath in Romans 14 ; 5 And Colossians 2 ; 16 ,

This is just reiterated goop.

Quote  The Law of Mosheh , Musa , Moses says ; Do not eat pork in Leviticus 11 ; 7 , And the swine , though he divide the hoof . and be cloven footed , yet he cheweth not the cud ; he is unclean to you , '' Saul , Shaool , Paul says ; You can eat anything in Roman 14 ; 2 , '' For one believeth that he may eat all things ; another , who is weak , eateth herbs ,

Now how does this statement made by Paul about a weak Christian have anything to do with some unfounded declaration that you can eat anything?

Quote Saul , Shaool , Paul even went against the Baptism 1Corinthians 1; 14 , 17 , And I Quote ; I thank God ( Theos , Elohyeem ) that I baptized none of you , but Crispus and Gaius ( 17 ) For Christ sent me not to baptize , but to preach the gospel ; not wisdom of words , lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect , '' which Yashu'a , Isa , Jesus , himself was given by Yowkhanan Yahya , John ( Baptist ) . Make not that Yowkhanan Yahya , John ( Zebedee ) still spoke of Baptism after Saul , Shaool , Paul's statement because his books came later , Yet , still in John 1 ; 26 , it says '' John answered them , saying , I Baptize with water ; but there standeth one among you , whom ye know not .

Mark 1; 9 , And I Quote ' And it came to pass in those days , that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was Baptized of John in Jordan .  

John 1 ; 33 , And I Quote ; And I knew him not ; but he that sent me To Baptize with water , the same said unto me , Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining on him , the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost .  

Take note, Baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.  Refer back to the conversation Jesus had with Nicodemus. Muslims know nothing of this, nor do they understand. If anything, you use it against yourself.

Change the �and I quote� to �and I copy/paste� and you could at least redeem yourself by letting people know you didn�t put this thing together yourself.

Anything else you'd like to know about Paul?

I'm a Gentile.
Numb. 6:24-26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 August 2012 at 9:20am
Originally posted by Caringheart Caringheart wrote:


Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:


Caringheart,
I do not know from where you get your knowledge of Islam my friend, but you are wrong again. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not say to kill those who did not believe in him, if that's what you are saying.
And I suppose you see something else in these words of the Bible then how they appear, don't tell me there is love in there!
Matt 10: 34 �Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

��a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law �
36     a man�s enemies will be the members of his own household.�

And to further correct you: Prophet Mohammed did not follow what Prophet Jesus (pbut) said. They both followed what Allah said to them.

Hasan
Greetings Hasan,from the Qur'an... I get my information from the Qur'an.� I am reading it.'slay them [the disbelievers] where ye find them'is a pretty good paraphrase.and surah 4:89regarding the passage from the Bible;I did once struggle with this passage, but as I have come to know God's Word in its entirety and fullness, as I have drawn closer to Him, understanding has come.� Jesus was making a simple statement of fact, that those who believe will not get along with those who disbelieve.� The fact of Jesus would cause divisions even amongst ones own families.Is Ramadan over now?If so, I hope it was fruitful for you.Salaam,Caringheart


Caringheart,
I hope this is not how you conclude on issues that are important, by reading parts only. This is what the hate group do because they do know that is the only way to find problems, by reading incomplete sentences and drawing their meanings.
I expect of you more than that my friend as I hear from you so far that you want to learn.
I will help you with this as it is my duty to correct when I see a wrong.
The part of the Quranic quote you pasted has to be read complete in order to be benefited.
4:89 (Y. Ali) They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
4:90 (Y. Ali) Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

Thus, reading complete makes things clear I hope :)

Ramadan, Alhumdolillah (Praise God) is going great, it is going so fast, unbelievable, only ten more days. It feels like yesterday that we started the month, and here we are in the last ten days. May God Almighty accept our efforts and forgive the mistakes we make, Ameen.
Peace,
Hasan
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 9:14pm
Originally posted by Friendship Friendship wrote:

Assalamu alaika Caringheart.

Is this actually your quote? :Hmm, I wonder....this made me think.If no one disputed his truthfulness would not all Jews and Christians in the territory have become followers of Muhammad?

Answer. Understand please that in Makka there were no Christians. In Medina the Jews lived in Fadak and 8 klm from the masjid Rasulullah in their expectation that when the messenger comes he will be from them. There were also no Christians. Christians of the Byzantine belief were living in Yemen. They all believed after the conquest of Makka.
The jews could not believe for the Shari'a was consolidated, perfected, simplified as a result of their behavior. without them, revelation and hence Muhammad Rasulullah could be senseless. Personally, I do not believe in accusing them of disbelief.  They played their role and were given place to live in Syria etc. THEY WILL BE FORGIVEN BY ALLAH. Please read that book I recommended for you.

Friendship



Yes, that was written by me.
Cool
Friendship, I need you, if you could, to remind me of what book?  If I were to try and find your old post to me on this computer it would take me half a day. Confused Could you private message the name of it to me, then it will not be lost.
Thanks.
Heart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Caringheart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 August 2012 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:



Caringheart,
I do not know from where you get your knowledge of Islam my friend, but you are wrong again. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not say to kill those who did not believe in him, if that's what you are saying.
And I suppose you see something else in these words of the Bible then how they appear, don't tell me there is love in there!
Matt 10: 34 �Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn

��a man against his father,
    a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law �
36     a man�s enemies will be the members of his own household.�

And to further correct you: Prophet Mohammed did not follow what Prophet Jesus (pbut) said. They both followed what Allah said to them.

Hasan


Greetings Hasan,

from the Qur'an... I get my information from the Qur'an.  I am reading it.
'slay them [the disbelievers] where ye find them'
is a pretty good paraphrase.
and surah 4:89

regarding the passage from the Bible;
I did once struggle with this passage, but as I have come to know God's Word in its entirety and fullness, as I have drawn closer to Him, understanding has come. 

Jesus was making a simple statement of fact, that those who believe will not get along with those who disbelieve.  The fact of Jesus would cause divisions even amongst ones own families.

Is Ramadan over now?
If so, I hope it was fruitful for you.

Salaam,
Caringheart
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