Why building a mosque near "ground zero" is bad

@RonWebb

Please do not use the palestinians and Israelis as a litmus as to how problematic my own personal philosophies are, it insults my intelligence. I am sorry I do not subscribe to the Jesus method. We live in a different world and I believe in order to sustain some sense of order people need to cooperate with each other ergo, compromise.

Like I mentioned previously, I spoke heavily on my wifes family who are of Palestinian descent. Now I wont go into details but they said some pretty hurtful things to me in my presence, but of course like any coward its done in a manner I cannot perceive. Now, I have extended the olive branch many times in the face of being insulted and the branch is always snatched from my hands and used for camp fire. So how does one continue to respect others in the midst of those who do not even respect you on the basic level of humanity?
Now grant it this is not to say all Palestinians are inhospititable because there are a great many that will invite you in their homes as a stranger. However there are a great many that will not based on who you are, or what clan you come from.

Respect isn't about "I like you if you like me" respect is about cohesion in the midst of adversity. We humans aren't obligated to each other like that, nor is there any rule that states that I am obligated to automatically respect you. You see, I can accept who people are without respecting them like my in-laws and there are those who I accept, and respect. I refuse to respect anyone who refers to another human in slanderous terms just like I refuse to respect an extremist who blows himself up killing kids or a military that PURPOSEFULLY bomb populated cities or extremist christians who want to impose their will on others. I can accept those realities but I don't have to respect that, and just because I don't respect that doesn't mean I am in violation of some universal altruistic order.

You see Ron all what you've said to me are your own ideas and thoughts on how the world should be. I have had the luxury of travel and have seen many great and wonderous things but I also understand that human nature regardless of culture can be cruel.
So you're speaking to the wrong guy about problems of respect because how I perceive things isn't because of television, its what I have experienced and more specifically in the region you mentioned.

Gibbs wrote: I am sorry I do not subscribe to the Jesus method.

I'm sorry too.  I don't agree with everything Jesus said, but in teaching us to "love thine enemy" IMHO he was ahead of his time.  It is a philosophy that is more necessary and more effective now, in the context of a multicultural and global community, than it would have been two thousand years ago.

So how does one continue to respect others in the midst of those who do not even respect you on the basic level of humanity?

By understanding that from their point of view and with their ideological background they are behaving appropriately.  You can reject their point of view, you can disagree with their ideology, and you can acknowledge being hurt by their words or their behaviour, but always remember that in their own minds they are good people.  In that sense you can respect them.

I refuse to respect anyone who refers to another human in slanderous terms just like I refuse to respect an extremist who blows himself up killing kids or a military that PURPOSEFULLY bomb populated cities or extremist christians who want to impose their will on others. I can accept those realities but I don't have to respect that, and just because I don't respect that doesn't mean I am in violation of some universal altruistic order.

Even suicide bombers see themselves as doing God's work.  They are probably exceptionally good people, willing to sacrifice their own lives for the common good.  They're just very screwed up about what God wants from them and what constitutes "the common good".  In other words, hate the sin, but not the sinner.

You see Ron all what you've said to me are your own ideas and thoughts on how the world should be. I have had the luxury of travel and have seen many great and wonderous things but I also understand that human nature regardless of culture can be cruel. So you're speaking to the wrong guy about problems of respect because how I perceive things isn't because of television, its what I have experienced and more specifically in the region you mentioned.

First, you're making unwarranted assumptions about me.  Second, this is an ad hominem* attack, which is unlike you.  Third, I think many of the Al Queda bombers had the luxury of travel, saw a great many things and experienced other cultures.  Sadly, that is no guarantee of wisdom.

Edited by Ron Webb - 30 October 2010 at 1:06pm

RON,

As larry rightfully suggest either stick to the topic or jus abadon itI personally will not fulfill the jesus ideals. However I will maintain peaceful discourse to those who want it.

Ron Webb,

   You say, "This is not about the community centre anymore."

   You're right, it has now become the great litmus test of the American people in regard to their being either anti-Islam/anti Muslim or not.

   Remember, we're talking about a COMMUNITY CENTER.

   This issue is about Imam Rauf and the planners completely misreading the community that they want to build their mosque/community center to serve and outreach to. The local community clearly has no problem with building a mosque/community center in Manhattan, they just don't want it built 600 feet from Ground Zero.

   The residents of Manhattan have every right to support or not support this issue. They feel that it is insensitive and unsympathetic of their feelings for the Imam and the planners to INSIST on building a 13 story mosque/community center at 51 Park when the community clearly does not want them to.

   For the Imam and planners to simply turn a deaf ear to and disregard the feelings and deeply held emotions of those people that this mosque/community center is supposed to serve, is, in fact, incredibly insensitive and provocative.

   And the more that Imam Rauf and the planners INSIST on not moving the site under ANY circumstances, the more the community feels that there is another agenda at work here.

   The Governor of New York went out of his way to help the situation by making prime state-owned property in Manhattan available to the Imam and planners. But Imam Rauf and the planners are not interested in compromise, there is no middle ground, NO INTEREST IN WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

   There is an agenda here and only Imam Rauf and the planners seem to know what that agenda is. But clearly, the Imam and planners aren't concerned about the feelings of the local COMMUNITY in regard to their COMMUNITY CENTER.

   No, the Imam and planners will just allow the community to be accused of being anti-Islam and anti-Muslim if they don't get their way in this matter.

   That should really make the local community feel better about their NEW COMMUNITY CENTER, shouldn't it?

Larry

    

   



Edited by Larry - 31 October 2010 at 9:24pm