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Lebanese National on death row in Saudi
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Boomer View Drop Down
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Points: 180 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boomer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2010 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by Tasneem Tasneem wrote:

Assalamalaikum
 
How is everyone here? I haven't been on this forum for a long while, but the news I heard today has stirred me to discuss this very important issue with some of the intellectuals here InshaAllah.
 
A Lebanese national Ali Hussain Sibat has according to the news in the media been sentenced to death because of his psychic predictions on Lebanese TV.  Sibat had been to Saudi for Umrah two years ago and was recognised by the religious police and was arrested after being made to confess.
 
My question firstly is how can the Saudi government arrest and hand out a death penalty to a citizen of another country?
 
Does this not pose a risk to all Muslims who visit the holy sites?
 
Secondly, what Sibat did or said may be wrong, but does it warrant the death penalty? Please let us have your views.

Upon reading the story surrounding Mr. Sibat, my first reaction was, �how could such medieval superstition be used as a means to render the death penalty?�.

 

It�s exactly that medieval superstition that I found to be so tragically comical. The case was referred to a �Court of Appeal� in Mecca and subsequently returned to the original court for reconsideration. This suggests that members of the Saudi "court" somehow found merit in such things as charging someone with a Capital crime for such things as telling the future. This further suggests that there is a cultural mentality in desperate need of adult (more likely, medical), supervision.  Didn�t anyone bother to look at a calendar and realize that we�re in the year 2010, not 710?

Inasmuch as anyone can ascribe the term �legal process� to a sharia court system, we need to remember that this case was rattling around before (allegedly) grown-ups� who apparently really do believe in such things as sorcery, demons and things that go bump in the night. I find that adherence to such rumor and superstition would require us to draw all our conclusions not as humans but as sheep, and blindly follow the traditions and tales of those who claim authority for such traditions. That in turn would automatically subject the vast majority of humanity to forever live in fear and superstition. Some may be happy with such a circumstance. Others of us are not.
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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Points: 5105 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2010 at 2:50pm

Arrests in the United States happen all the time, however its practitioners are charged with fraud or "con artist", legal euphemisms.  Anyway, most religions forbid this practice and at least a few progressive societies have as well:
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Originally posted by abuayisha abuayisha wrote:

Arrests in the United States happen all the time, however its practitioners are charged with fraud or "con artist", legal euphemisms.  Anyway, most religions forbid this practice and at least a few progressive societies have as well:

 

Firstly, your internet scouring yielded a link to a NY Times article that was dated October 22, 1921.

 

Secondly, the remaining two links you posted had nothing to do with arrests which, as you describe, �happen all the time�, in the United States.

 

Did you even read the link you supplied to the article in the Independent? That article describes �A New Zealand man spent a "wretched" night in a Fiji prison cell�. Last I heard, Fiji is not the United States.

 

Quite clearly, your claim that �Arrests in the United States happen all the time�, is utterly without substantiation.  
 
Thirdly, none of the links you posted identified anyone as receiving the death penalty.  
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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Points: 5105 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2010 at 5:45pm

Yeah Boomer, with respect to the death penalty, I agree with you, however since you were commenting on comical medieval superstitions in 710, I sought to establish modern day relevance and illegality.  So, was my internet scouring all in vain?



Edited by abuayisha - 31 March 2010 at 5:49pm
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Points: 180 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boomer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2010 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by abuayisha abuayisha wrote:

Yeah Boomer, with respect to the death penalty, I agree with you, however since you were commenting on comical medieval superstitions in 710, I sought to establish modern day relevance and illegality.  So, was my internet scouring all in vain?

Actually, it is. By no stretch of an over-active imagination could anyone believe that "Arrests in the United States happen all the time". Similarly, I have yet to see any indication of the death penalty imposed for such a crime. Lastly, read the article you linked to and note the charges. They include fraudulent accosting and attempted grand larceny.
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"however should we make excuses for an avowed soothsayer or those religious individuals who enjoin the good and forbid evil (Saudi Wutaween)?"
 
Be it soothsaying or socery... to me these are nothing but tricks to deceive the ignorant. If these really existed today the Palestinian problem would have been won, all our problems would have been solved Smile ! I think it is a medieval belief indeed, in any case in no way do I condone it, nor do I think it deserves a death sentence.
 
 


Edited by Tasneem - 31 March 2010 at 9:53pm
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abuayisha View Drop Down
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Points: 5105 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abuayisha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2010 at 9:39am
S 165.30 Fraudulent accosting.
  1. A person is guilty of fraudulent accosting when he accosts a person
in a public place with intent to defraud him of money or other property
by means of a trick, swindle or confidence game.
  2. A person who, either at the time he accosts another in a public
place or at some subsequent time or at some other place, makes
statements to him or engages in conduct with respect to him of a kind
commonly made or performed in the perpetration of a known type of
confidence game, is presumed to intend to defraud such person of money
or other property.
  Fraudulent accosting is a class A misdemeanor.
 
S 165.35 Fortune telling.
  A person is guilty of fortune telling when, for a fee or compensation
which he directly or indirectly solicits or receives, he claims or
pretends to tell fortunes, or holds himself out as being able, by
claimed or pretended use of occult powers, to answer questions or give
advice on personal matters or to exorcise, influence or affect evil
spirits or curses; except that this section does not apply to a person
who engages in the aforedescribed conduct as part of a show or
exhibition solely for the purpose of entertainment or amusement.
  Fortune telling is a class B misdemeanor.
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Originally posted by abuayisha abuayisha wrote:

S 165.30 Fraudulent accosting.
  1. A person is guilty of fraudulent accosting when he accosts a person
in a public place with intent to defraud him of money or other property
by means of a trick, swindle or confidence game.
  2. A person who, either at the time he accosts another in a public
place or at some subsequent time or at some other place, makes
statements to him or engages in conduct with respect to him of a kind
commonly made or performed in the perpetration of a known type of
confidence game, is presumed to intend to defraud such person of money
or other property.
  Fraudulent accosting is a class A misdemeanor.
 
S 165.35 Fortune telling.
  A person is guilty of fortune telling when, for a fee or compensation
which he directly or indirectly solicits or receives, he claims or
pretends to tell fortunes, or holds himself out as being able, by
claimed or pretended use of occult powers, to answer questions or give
advice on personal matters or to exorcise, influence or affect evil
spirits or curses; except that this section does not apply to a person
who engages in the aforedescribed conduct as part of a show or
exhibition solely for the purpose of entertainment or amusement.
  Fortune telling is a class B misdemeanor.
 
Well, I'm sure that you can also go for pages abandoning your previously discredited criteria wherein you claimed �Arrests in the United States happen all the time�, and some nonsense regarding the death penalty (which you now seem to understand were useless to your task) and trying to substitute others, as you have done in this series of posts. I'm happy to see you are no longer defending the silly criteria you tried to foist off just a few posts ago. But, having already demonstrated your failure to think through this argument (since, after all, it is not your own) a new list does not give us great confidence that your substitutions are any better than your originals.
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