Jesus Will Return - Site

You claimed that majority of the translators have interpreted it in one way but as far as i see there is clearly a difference in understanding  of this  verse amoung the  majority of scholars.Some translated it as "will believe and some as "must believe".I dont see how these interpretations become one way??!You called all of them reputed first(I cant still understand on what basis) and then u said some are unclear and ambiguous and now you are saying that they are not 100 percent perfect.Do us a favour and compare the translations of the so called reputed translators first and then tell us which one is the correct one.

Your contention was that the verse was speaking in the past tense.  When you were proven wrong, you switched gears and stated that "well, the translations differ in the meaning", as if this somehow proves your original contention and immediately makes Khalifa's translation more accurate.  Of course, the reality is that it doesn't. 

As I said, there is no translation on earth which can be said to be 100% error-proof.  Translations are the works of men, and sometimes, the text of the Quran is difficult to render into modern language.  This explains why some translations differ on the meaning.  It depended on the translator's understanding.  What is clear is that the verse is not in the past tense, as you and Khalifa claimed.   

The actual Arabic text  doesnt say anything like " and if they dont believe".You are adding words to the verse  and trying to make sense to the translation.The fact remains that the translations done by the majority makes absolutely no sense.In the first part of their translation of the verse, they put "must believe" or"will believe or whatever,which does not at all make any sense since the second part of the verse simply says "he will be a witness against them".If Jesus returns ,i dont see a reason y the POB shouldnt believe in him.Or are u saying that some amoung the POB will not believe in him????!!Does verse say that???!It is  therefore very clear and anyone with minimum inteligence will understand that the second part will only make perfect sense leaving no confusion, if the first part of the verse was translated as  something like"Everyone amoung the POB was to believe in him.

  

Where did I add to the verse?  All I said was that according to Yusuf Ali's translation, the verse says that the people of the book must believe in Jesus and that he would be a witness against them.  Logically, this means that he will be a witness against them if they don't believe.  The verse does not literally say that but since you have been harping about "context", I would advise you to look at the context here.  The logical conclusion is that if they don't believe, he will be a witness against them for their erroneous beliefs.

All of them will believe???Well God didnt say that so i wonder where u got that idea from.In the below verse 3:55 GOD clearly says that he will exalt those who follow or believe him above those who disbelieve TILL the day of judgement and that their dispute regarding Jesus's death will remain till the Day of Judgement.If all of the POB believed then there shouldnt be a reason for dispute and no reason for GOD to judge them regarding their dispute on the day of Judgement.This is another clear indication that Jesus will not return before the day of Judgement coz if he did and showed himself alive,there is no reason for disbelieving nor reason for dispute!! its as simple as that!And anyone who is denying this Quranic truth is only doing so becoz of ignorance and EGO,nothing else!!

3:55 is talking about the people in Jesus' time, not those in the future.  Context Haris, please.  In the future, all of the people of the book may believe in him when they realize that Islam is the correct religion.  Who are the ones that believe in him that God refers to in the verse, in your opinion?

Well otherwise it simply wouldnt make anysense.If so,please explain why would GOD suddenly raise a messenger of GOD up to him if he wasnt in any dangerous situation??Why would GOD terminate a messenger's mission just like that?? Why would GOD raise him up and rid him off the disbelievers for no good reason??.The disbelievers were there all the time when Jesus was preaching GOD's message.So why all of a sudden GOD chose to raise him and rid him off the disbelievers if nothing serious happened to him????

Um, because it came to the point where they had decided to kill him and were hell-bent on capturing him to do so?  That makes sense to me.  Just because he was in danger does not mean he was on the verge of death.  According to most accounts, he was put on trial first.  So even when he was captured, his life was not in imminent danger.  Only after the trial was his life in danger, as he was sentenced to death. 

Jesus was clearly in danger and thats y God chose to raise him up and rid him off the aggressing disbelievers.And the verse is certainly not in future tense so clearly GOD was not talking days before the incident.Therefore, It takes only common sense to understand that GOD was speaking to Jesus when he was either arrested or put on cross to be crucified by the disbelievers.

 

So, to do that, God essentially kills him?  Wow.  I said that God may have said this to Jesus sometime before the crucifixion actually took place.  I didn't say anything about future or past tense.  I am saying that sometime before his arrest or perhaps after, God told Jesus of His plans. 

Again i dont see any other reason other than ignorance and EGO for anyone to deny the fact that "Mutawafeeka" in this particular context means putting to death.And i perfectly understand y you see RK's translation inferior to others coz  his translation is not based on some hearsays written down by someone centuries back ,years after the Prophet's death, many of which you guys dont even still know if is "authentic or unauthentic".

  Yeah, but Khalifa's claims 1400 years later somehow are more accurate!  Come on...



Edited by islamispeace - 24 April 2010 at 4:08pm

haris30432 wrote: This is fine, but my question is regarding your initial assertion that God was explaining that the righteous don't actually die, but are living.  Why did God also not say something similar with regards to the other prophets and messengers who were slain by the unbelievers.   [2:154] Do not say of those who are killed in the cause of GOD, "They are dead." They are alive at their Lord, but you do not perceive.* The verse is not directed to Jesus(since he was not KILLED) alone but to all the righteous people,any one who lost their life in the cause of GOD or as i understand anyone who died while striving in the cause of GOD.I was only using this verse to show that this may be the reason y GOD did not specifically say that "JESUS IS DEAD".!!

You are still not making sense.  Why would God go to that length to say Jesus did not really die (when he really did), because the righteous do not really die, but he did not say the same for the other prophets and messengers who also died in the cause of God?

haris30432 wrote: Furthermore, by asking what these verses mean or what significance they have, you are implying that Muhammad (pbuh) had no idea what was meant, because there is no evidence that he understood these verses as referring to some "hidden code".  Do you think Muhammad (pbuh) asked what these verses meant??   Just becoz there is no historical evidence does not mean that Muhammad (Pbuh) did not know what the Quranic Initials were or what the verses really meant.He may have and may not have.And it is GOD who teaches and  chooses what his messenger needs to know and what not.Muhammad (Pbuh) only spoke about things that was taught to him by GOD in the Quran.This code was definitely preserved for the scientifically advanced generation.And what about the BIG BANG theory??!.Many today say that GOD is talking about  it  in the Quran.Did Muhammad know anything about the BIG BANG THEORY??!The Quran as i understand is for all the generations to come and therefore many new information may be derived from the Quran.So that people believe and increase in faith at all times.   [10:101] Say, "Look at all the signs in the heavens and the earth." All the proofs and all the warnings can never help people who decided to disbelieve.

The Quran clearly says that Muhammad (pbuh) was sent to teach the Book to the people.  How could he do that if God did not fully reveal all the details of the Book?  Muhammad (pbuh) did know how the universe was created, and hence he knew about the Big Bang Theory.  Did he know it literally as the "Big Bang"?  Of course not!  Similarly, if there was a code in the Quran and it was supposed to be interpreted as proof of the divine origin of the Quran, Muhammad (pbuh) would have been told about it and he would have told his followers who would have been looking for it from the start.  But, the whole idea of looking for a code is preposterous.  Do you think God would want us to spend our precious time in this life looking for codes in the Quran OR to spend it actually reading the Quran and understanding its wisdom?    

haris30432 wrote: That is true.  The Quran's revelation was a major sign of the last hour, but there are many more that have yet to be fulfilled.  If they had all been fulfilled, don't you think that the last hour would have come by now?   Id like to make a correction here.The Quran only says that the signs have come, not fulfilled.All the details of the signs of the hour came to us when the Quran was revealed.

This makes no sense.  How could they have come and yet not be fulfilled?