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accepting a muslim household
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2010 at 4:21pm

Originally posted by Sign*Reader Sign*Reader wrote:

I am still waiting for the response to the previous posts!

I answered what I thought deserved an answer.  Most of your posts are just ad hominems or neocolonial rants.

Originally posted by fais fais wrote:

I wanna understand one thing,the hadith about hitting with a miswak is good or bad according to you?

According to me, the hadith is neither good nor bad.  To be either, it would have to exist, and no one has given me any reason to suppose that it does. 

Originally posted by Chrysalis Chrysalis wrote:

Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:


 But until someone does, I see no reason to believe that this apocryphal hadith actually exists.

As if you would actually believe it ?


Whether I believe it or not is unimportant.  What matters is whether Muslims ought to believe it, i.e. whether it is part of Islam or just something somebody made up.


Quote
Quote No, not "and thus Muslims".  Most Muslims, like most Christians and most other faiths, manage to be good people despite their religions.  That was my point.

Well, when you talk about "Good & Bad people" and then talk about Islam,  you are bringing in Muslims. Islam is not a "person", If your point was that Muslims can be good people despite religion. . . then there was no need to bring in Islam at all. Unless you are equating Islam with its people.


No, you brought in Muslims. (Remember "and thus Muslims"?)  I brought in Islam because Saudi Arabia is a fundamentalist Islamic state.  Islam has everything to do with it.


Quote
Quote If marie-london had chosen to accompany her husband to Saudi Arabia, wife-beating could very well have been an issue.

Really ? So if she had lived with him in her own country, wife-beating would not be possible ? Moving to Saudi Arabia automatically makes wife-beating a possibility ? Wife-Beating can take place anywhere, even in non-Muslim countries. And men get away with it . . . . moving to Saudia Arabia does not increase the chances of wife-beating. If he is a good man, he will remain so in Saudia Arabia as well. And if he is a bad man, he can very well beat up his wife in the UK or USA.


The difference is that in Saudi Arabia he knows he can probably get away with it.  She probably can't even leave the house without his permission; and when she does, a burka can hide any evidence.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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fais View Drop Down
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Hello
 
The discussion started with a woman who does not want to join her husband in saudi arabia to wife beating because  of just one fanatic christian who claims to be humanist.
 
I have been married to a saudi culture woman so i know what a beautifull life they live with all their rights protected by the goverment.people sitting on the other side of the world cannot comment on the freedom of woman in islamic coutries,Muslim women are much better than in west where the woman are asked to earn for their household and then left alone when they cross the age of 40.
 
This is ISLAM,we all muslim brother and sisters are trying in some way to convince this woman to not to take a divorce,on the opposite side  there is a so called humanist who boldly advises to leave the man and do not think of the children and the family and also that woman herself when she is no longer attaractive to get a new man in her life.
 
for the sake of the of few worldly fun he is advising her to destroy her family leave her children without father without thinking of her future.
 
WOW RON YOU ARE REALLY A HUMANIST!dont know in what sence
 
 
 
 
 
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abuayisha View Drop Down
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The "Bush doctrine" of pre-emptive self-defence against wife-beating.
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Chrysalis View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

 But until someone does, I see no reason to believe that this apocryphal hadith actually exists.

As if you would actually believe it ?

Quote
Quote You say "no doubt there are good and bad people everywhere"  . . . YET immediately point a finger at Islam ?!?! (and thus Muslims).

No, not "and thus Muslims".  Most Muslims, like most Christians and most other faiths, manage to be good people despite their religions.  That was my point.

Well, when you talk about "Good & Bad people" and then talk about Islam,  you are bringing in Muslims. Islam is not a "person", If your point was that Muslims can be good people despite religion. . . then there was no need to bring in Islam at all. Unless you are equating Islam with its people.

Quote If marie-london had chosen to accompany her husband to Saudi Arabia, wife-beating could very well have been an issue.


Really ? So if she had lived with him in her own country, wife-beating would not be possible ? Moving to Saudi Arabia automatically makes wife-beating a possibility ? Wife-Beating can take place anywhere, even in non-Muslim countries. And men get away with it . . . . moving to Saudia Arabia does not increase the chances of wife-beating. If he is a good man, he will remain so in Saudia Arabia as well. And if he is a bad man, he can very well beat up his wife in the UK or USA.
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
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fais View Drop Down
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Dear Brother sign Reader

Just leave this guy alone,he is acting as if he is master in sience of hadith,there are so many things to learn of hadith and this can be learned only by a person who is seeking truth with an unbiased mind.

He is like those christian missioneries working in south part of india,they could not harm islam directly so they made different group where muslim boys studying in convent schools are given training that all relegion is useless just talk to god in the night.do not follow any rule just be a humanist and follow god without relegion.and beleive me brother they were able to misguide few muslim boys,i met such boys in saudi arabia working with me.
 
Ron:
I wanna understand one thing,the hadith about hitting with a miswak is good or bad according to you?cause your question asking authenticity of the hadith i mentioned shows that you accept that kind of behviour from a man who is betrayed by his wife.
 
tell me Ron:
what do you mean by A Hadith and how it is recorded,let me know how u understand islam.what is your parametre,just a few websites or you have a collection of sahih bukhari,sahih muslim,Abdawood,and tirmidhi.
tell me who are these people.
 
Just dont do quack quack like a duck repeating samething what you want.
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Sign*Reader View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by abuayisha abuayisha wrote:

Really?  So, what was this all about?  A search for the truth or fun and games?  Or maybe just an attempt at smearing our faith.

It's a search for the truth, specifically the truth of fais's claim that Muhammad said that men should use a miswak to beat their wives.  I am confident that there is no such hadith.  It is an invention by Muslim apologists.

I have more than a thousand posts on this forum.  I have debated a great many issues with you and many other regulars.  I am disappointed that after all this time you would accuse me of "an attempt at smearing our faith".  I am simply judging your faith by its own standards.  The Quran advises men to beat their wives, and several hadith show that Muhammad at least permitted it.  Muhammad himself struck Aisha hard enough to cause pain (see Sahih Muslim, 4:2127).  You can make what you will of that, but it is the truth.  It is not a "smear".

Quoting this as beating you need to get your head examined particularly when you don't have the original beside it! And what is this Muslim Jewish Engagement stuffWink


Edited by Sign*Reader - 27 July 2010 at 1:49am
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Sign*Reader View Drop Down
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Points: 3352 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sign*Reader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2010 at 12:31am
Ron
I think you are cunning as fox, hiding behind the humanism facade to keep throwing darts against the Islamic elements vis a vis other Euro religions!
You make an assumption like the way you made "Muhammad God's partner" thread...Now you injected this wife beating which happens but in your mind it does more so amongst Muslims...Again you assumed if marie had gone to Saudi wife beating could very well be issue...That tells me you are really having fun stabbing any opportunity is available to you!
Hence all of us here consider you as a member of Judeo Christian block while responding cuz you have lost the credibility by your underhanded actions!

I am still waiting for the response to the previous posts!


Edited by Sign*Reader - 27 July 2010 at 12:38am
Kismet Domino: Faith/Courage/Liberty/Abundance/Selfishness/Immorality/Apathy/Bondage or extinction.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Points: 2467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2010 at 6:32pm

Originally posted by Chrysalis Chrysalis wrote:

Are you enough of a scholar on Islam to know which texts/information/explanations fall under the category of "Inventions by Muslim Apologists" ? How do you know ?

I didn't say I know.  I said I am confident, which is the best I can say about a negative claim (the non-existence of something).  If you want to prove otherwise, just cite a credible reference.  But until someone does, I see no reason to believe that this apocryphal hadith actually exists.

Quote You say "no doubt there are good and bad people everywhere"  . . . YET immediately point a finger at Islam ?!?! (and thus Muslims).

No, not "and thus Muslims".  Most Muslims, like most Christians and most other faiths, manage to be good people despite their religions.  That was my point.

Quote There is no harm in having a genuine discussion, and discussing the "truth". But posting a statement like that in a thread where "wife-beating" or "domestic violence" wasn't even an issue, nor were we discussing treatment of women in Islam - does come under the category of a "smear". We were discussing the lady's specific circumstances . . .

If marie-london had chosen to accompany her husband to Saudi Arabia, wife-beating could very well have been an issue.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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