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Heaven and hell

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 August 2005 at 1:39am
Originally posted by rami rami wrote:

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

wa alaikum asalam Hope,

can i asume your a sister ?

Quote I was merely saying that you cannot accept Allah (swt) as your Lord and then deny what he has sent and commanded us to follow. How can you worship if you don't obey? It doesn't make sense.  Do you see my point? Anyway I do see your point so we will say that the people of the book all worship Allah (swt) ok.


You can accept allah as your Rab and not follow his comandments, Millions of Muslims themself do it all the time

 

You know very well that I am talking about rejecting faith. You cannot obey Allah (swt) if you reject his PROPHETS. I don't know of any muslims that don't believe in Prophet Mohammed. It's a question of shaddah. Not whether not someone who ALREADY accepts shaddah pays zakat every year or not! Big difference.

If there is a question-- what is said in the Qu'ran trumps what is in the hadith. Not that they contradict but the Qu'ran is the direct word of Allah (swt) whereas the hadith are NOT. They can even vary  in the degree to the certainity of what they contain. The answer is SO clear in the Qu'ran and you are trying to piece together something from the hadith to support your very assumption that the kaffir will be in jennah. Kaffir in hell eternally. The hadith that you keep referring to is about muslims. ONly musims that have to be purified will be sent to hell before they can enter jennah. It does not apply to kaffirs. Kaffirs go to hell and stays there.   

Anyway, Since I can't do ijtihad and you can't either I have to go by what scholars read from this.  Please read this and if you find anything from another scholar that is different please post here. Thanks.

Questions? - [email protected]

Bismillah Rahman Raheem
Salam alaykum:

Your Question:

"Will only Muslims go to heaven? Or will non-Muslims be there too?"



Answer:

In order to properly understand the answer we must first supply a basic understanding of what the words in Arabic mean. The key to correct understanding in this matter is to keep in mind that Arabic is a root driven language based on a verb structure.

Look to our website page on this subject at:


http://www.islamtomorrow.com/word/

You will be able to better understand the difference between ISLAM as a verb as opposed to ISLAM as a noun, inshallah.

To give a brief summary of ISLAM as a verb:

ISLAM - means doing what Allah wants you to do and doing it in surrender, obedience, sincerity and peace, according to His Commandments and Rules.

MUSLIM - means a person who is doing the action of Islam - meaning a person who submits to Allah on His terms and does so in complete peace without resisting Allah's Orders.

The first Muslim was Adam, peace be upon him, and then many more came after him. Some were called "Hunafah" (not to be confused with the followers of Abu Hanifah), this was a very long time before Moses, peace be upon him. Some were called "Jews" (Yahud in Hebrew) and then came "Christians." But all of them were at the same time, "Muslims" because they were doing "Islam." In other words they were doing what Allah had commanded them to do and they were sincere in their worship to Him and only to Him without any partners.

This means that anybody could be in Paradise as long as they were doing "God's Will" and not worshipping something other than Almighty God.

The statement, "None shall enter the Paradise except Muslims" is true, only if you understand it in the above context.

There are some verses in the Quran that make it crystal clear:

"Inna deenah, inndallahil Islam."
(Certainly, Allah will only accept Islam [submission to Him on His terms in peace] as a way of life for anyone.)
[surah Al Imran 3:19]

"Wa ma yabtaghi ghayril Islama deenah, fala-yuq bala minhu, wa huwa fil akhirati minal khasareen."
(And whoever desires a way of life other than what Allah has command, He will never accept it from them and in the Hereafter they will be amongst the loosers.)
[surah Al Imran 3:85]

Al yawm ya-isa allatheena kafaru min deenikum fala takhshawhum waikhshawni.
This day (at this time) those who disbelieve (in Allah) have given up all hope of your DEEN (way of life - ISLAM), so do not fear them, but rather fear Me [Allah].

Al Yawma akmaltu lakum deenakum wa at mamtu alaykum nia'matee wa radeetul lakum ul islama deena.
This day, I have perfected your DEEN (way of life) for you, completed my favor upon you, and have chosen for you ISLAM (submission to Allah) as your DEEN (way of life).
[Surah Al Mai'adah 5:3]

The prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, said, "I swear by the One who holds my life in His Hands (Allah) there is none amongst the Jews and Christians who hears about me and then dies without believing in the message with which I have been sent (monotheism of Islam - believing Allah is One and we must submit ourselves to His Will on earth), except he will be of the people of the Fire (Hell).
[Sahih Muslim, Book of Faith, Vol. 1, hadeeth 240]

Allah also says:

"Inna allatheena kafaroo lan tughniya AAanhum amwaluhum wala aw laduhum mina Allahi shay-an wa olaaa-ika as-habun-nari-hum feeha khalidoon."
(Surely, those who reject Faith (disbelieve in Allah and in Muhammad, peace be upon him), neither their properties, nor their offspring will benefit them anything against Allah. They are the dwellers of the Fire, therein they will live forever.)
[Surah Al Imran 3:116, tafseer At-Tabari, Vol. 4, Page 58]


We should now be able to understand that the One and Only True God of the universe has made it clear, He has a Way of Life (DEEN) already laid out for us and if we accept it and act on it to the best of our ability, then we are in the right way (ISLAM). And certainly, it is not based on being an Arab or speaking Arabic or any other culture or language. It is not about skin color, ethnicity or race. It is not about what the world labels us but rather what is in our hearts.

The heart is a precious comodity to Allah and He is the Judge of the hearts. We can not say that someone is from the Paradise of the Hell-Fire. We can only say what types of beliefs and actions would bring a person closer to either place.

I hope this has been helpful for you in better understanding who are the people of Paradise and who are those of the Fire. May Allah accept this and keep us away from the Hell and grant us His Paradise in Jennah, ameen.

Salam alaykum,
Yusuf Estes

------------------------------------------------------------ -------
Seriously, do you still deny that anyone who isn�t a muslim is going to hell. The Christians, Jews, and Hunafah (who came before islam) were allowed entry into heaven...but once islam came, their deens were corrupted and destroyed....the true Christians, Jews, and Hunafah  ARE LONG GONE... only the Muslims of the Qu�ran remain present-day and only they can enter Jennah.

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2005 at 9:36pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

wa alaikum asalam Hope,

can i asume your a sister ?

Quote I was merely saying that you cannot accept Allah (swt) as your Lord and then deny what he has sent and commanded us to follow. How can you worship if you don't obey? It doesn't make sense.  Do you see my point? Anyway I do see your point so we will say that the people of the book all worship Allah (swt) ok.


You can accept allah as your Rab and not follow his comandments, Millions of Muslims themself do it all the time, if this wasnt the case you would not see rasull allah saying  'O Lord, my followers!' Then He will say, 'Go and take out (all those) in whose hearts there is faith even to the lightest, lightest mustard seed. (Take them) out of the Fire.


When you read the versus in the Quran which are translated as Atom the word in arabic is mustard seed becouse this seed is extrememly small in size and this is the lightest faith a person can have.


al-Ma'idah 5:82

Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.


Quote

I appreciate the hadith brother rami but there is so much in the Qu'ran that says the kafir will burn in hell.  In fact the jew is cursed in the Qu'ran. The christians believe in a trinity that is shrik (the unforgivable sin) so that takes care of the people of the book.  And Qu'ran trumps hadith.



Quran Trumps hadith becouse  Rasul allah taught something contrary to the Quran?  The Ahadith further explain the Quran. The jews are cursed but they still believe in Allah what do you understand by "cursed"?


The christains are also described as being a people who have been fooled or tricked in the Quran thus there case is not black and white. Some believe in the trinity while there are many who dont and still call themself christians.


Lo! those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and then die disbelievers, Allah surely will not pardon them. 47:34


We have another verse which says the only sin Allah will not forgive is Idolatry do they contradict each other? no, you can not use the Quran to contradict another verse in the Quran or hadith this is a basic rule of Tafsir. They both came from rasul allah. There are many types of disbelievers some believe in Allah but not rasul allah while others dont believe in Allah at all.


"Whoever wishes for a way of life other that Islaam, never will it be accepted from them and in the hereafter they will be amongst the losers" 3:85

How does that contradict those who said la illaha illah llah will be taken out of hell, they are in hell ie losers.

Quote The Qu'ran says the kafir will burn in hell.

There are also hadith that say the kafir will burn in hell:

"On the day of judgment a disbeliever will be asked: 'Suppose you had as much gold as to fill the earth, would you offer it to ransom yourself from the hell-fire?' He will reply: 'Yes!' Then it will be said to him: 'You were asked for something easier than that, that you should join none in worship with Allaah, and submit yourself to Him, but you refused'" ( sahih Bukhari )

 

"By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Sahih Muslim, 153).

 

The Quran AND hadith say the Kafir will burn in hell.


Does the hadith i Quote say anything to contradict any of the above? no those who said la illah illah llah will be taken out of hell.

You can not use one hadith agaisnt another hadith or Quran against another verse in the Quran rasul allah did not contradict himself or what Allah has said.

Do you think even a second in hell is easy those who didnt believe in muhamad will be severly punished in hell but that does not contradict the hadith and verse i Quoted, I think rasul allah knows the shahadah....La illaha illah llah Muhamad rasul allah. now if a muslim was to simply say la illaha illah llah without muhamad rasul allah he would be a kafir so that last part in the hadith can in no way be talking about muslims.

The hadith itself is a sahih hadith.

Regarding your second post i have clarified that in my above post.



Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2005 at 8:59pm
Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

wa alaikum assalam

Quote Asalaam-o-Alaikum

I would like to add that Allah's "religion" has been "submission to His Will" as conveyed by every Prophet (pbut all). The name given to this "way of life" is Islam. Having said that I would like to mention a hadith (I do not know the exact wording) that says that the Holy Prophet (saw) once said that "no one will enter paradise except that Allah (swt) has Mercy on him". The Holy Prophet (saw) was asked "Even you, O Prophet of Allah?" and he replied in the affirmative.

So the correct faith and good deeds can make us "good candidates" for His Mercy but ultimately, Allah's justice will prevail in the case of those of us who have the misfortune of having our deeds and faith looked into. Blessed will be those who do not have any accountability or at the most only in a cursory manner. Allah humma hasibny hisabyen yaseera. Aameen


Jazak allah for reminding me of that hadith, it is absolutely ture and i think it was bad wording on my part if i implied that Allah was not turning to those people who simply said la ilaha illah llah through some aspect of his mercy. My point was that Allah himself was pointing out other atributes than mercy for a reason and we need to look at and understand why that is.

I think it was out of his mercy that Allah turned to this group through his atributes of Power, Majesty, Supremacy and Greatness becouse as we know through other ahadith and the Quran Rasul allah is a mercy for all the worlds and it is he who is interceding for them.



Edited by rami
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 August 2005 at 7:53pm

Hope Salaam,

Yes I was implying that but I have to say I disagree with you on another level here. When pluralistic religions use the premise of aligning religions even those whose premise is very distant in actuality the particulars of each religion which promotes peace and co-existence with other humans is indeed the path of Islam! even if the theologies are different the will of God exist in all aspects of life even in the development of religions which deny him and those thatr multiply him. Allah is he who is Lord of all and nothing can exist without him knowing it.

I may be a bit unorthodox but I believe that God is merciful and more merciful than how we perceive in his holy book. I believe since the words which God has crystallize in the Qur'an are in the human language its difficult to understand their true purity and when we see the words mercy, paradise, heaven and hell we truly cannot know the knowledge of what each entails therefore we on our behalf cannot judge (rightfully) because such is for God and not mankind even if we are a witness to  clear and conscious error.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2005 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by miasghar miasghar wrote:

Originally posted by rami rami wrote:

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

"Heaven is for those who follow Allah's religion,....."

Asalaam-o-Alaikum

I would like to add that Allah's "religion" has been "submission to His Will" as conveyed by every Prophet (pbut all). The name given to this "way of life" is Islam. Having said that I would like to mention a hadith (I do not know the exact wording) that says that the Holy Prophet (saw) once said that "no one will enter paradise except that Allah (swt) has Mercy on him". The Holy Prophet (saw) was asked "Even you, O Prophet of Allah?" and he replied in the affirmative.

Asalaamu Alaykum brother  - I agree with your first statement, but the conclusion you made from the hadith you refer to conflicts .Are you saying that this hadith means that a disbeliever can enter jennah? If so, (forgive me if I am wrong brother) I can�t see how you came to the conclusion.

 

I could just as easily conclude that this hadith mean that even the best of muslims (even a sinless prophet) are mercy of Allah (swt). The ayats I quoted in my other post support this.

I think that we should use what we know to make the best choices and help others to see the light and truth that is islam. I don�t want to waste any time or give anyone a false sense of hope. We are ALL at the mercy of Allah (swt) even the best or most pious among us  yes, but He has told us in the Qu�ran and sunnah to follow his deen. We are told exactly what to do to be rewarded on Yamul Qiyamat.

Jennah has price! It�s not easy to enter.

"When Allah created paradise and hell, he sent Jibreel (Gabriel) to paradise, saying: 'Go and look at it and the things I have prepared therein for its inhabitants.' So he went and looked at it and at what Allah had prepared therein for its inhabitants. He then came back and said: 'By your glory, whosoever will hear of it will long to enter it.'

 So he ordered that it be surrounded by forms of hardship, and said to Jibreel: 'Go back and look at what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants.' So he went back and found that it was surrounded by forms of hardship. Then he came back and said: 'By your glory, I fear that no-one will enter it.'

 

Then he sent him to the fire of hell saying, 'Go and look at it and what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants.' So he looked at it and saw that it was in layers, one above the other. Then he came back and said: 'By your glory, whoever hears of it will never try to enter it.'

So he ordered that it be surrounded by passions and desires, and said: 'Go and see what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants.' So he went and looked at it, then came back and said, 'by your glory, I fear that no-one will escape from entering it.'" (Muslim, Abu Daawud and Imaam Ahmad)

I mean if the prophet (pbuh) will enter paradise at the mercy of Allah (swt) do you think a disbeliever actually has any chance?

 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2005 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by Israfil Israfil wrote:

My apologies hope for not responding to you,

As'Salaamu Alaikum!

Let's be clear that my statements did not imply anything other than Islamic knowledge. My statement was in regards to the one who repents at the time of death and that in that moment God knows whether to forgive or not...Now if the atheist can turn theist then monotheist  this would be an improvement towards God. This is my point.

Wasalaam ! Thank for the reply.

It is more clear and I understand that you are saying that anyone who repents and accepts sahaddah at any point before death may be forgiven and Allah (swt) is the most merciful. I agree. I thought you were  saying something like those of the Bahai faith or others who say that every religion is a different path to the same source or end because that is not true. If someone rejects true Islam, then it is they who are the losers on the Day of Judgement as Allah has said.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2005 at 10:02pm

Originally posted by rami rami wrote:

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum Hope

Your basic asumtion is wrong, that jews and christians worship a god other than Allah.

Allah also acknowledges them in the Quran as being among those who worship him when he called them people of the book, and among the non muslims it is only the jews and christians that a muslim can marry no one else.

Your argument that jews and christians believe in a different God than what we do has no basis in Islam no scholar sahaba or tabii has made such a claim and it would constatute Kufr on the part of the person who believed this as they would be acusing the prophet Muhammad of worshiping other than the God of Abraham and bringing his own new religion.

Judaism and christianity existed before Islam..

Asalamu Alaiykum brother Rami

Just to make clear I know that judism and christianity of today grew out of the corruption of the message sent by Allah's (swt) prophets. I think this was a matter of semantics. I was merely saying that you cannot accept Allah (swt) as your Lord and then deny what he has sent and commanded us to follow. How can you worship if you don't obey? It doesn't make sense.  Do you see my point? Anyway I do see your point so we will say that the people of the book all worship Allah (swt) ok.

 

I appreciate the hadith brother rami but there is so much in the Qu'ran that says the kafir will burn in hell.  In fact the jew is cursed in the Qu'ran. The christians believe in a trinity that is shrik (the unforgivable sin) so that takes care of the people of the book.  And Qu'ran trumps hadith.

 

Lo! those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and then die disbelievers, Allah surely will not pardon them. 47:34

"Whoever wishes for a way of life other that Islaam, never will it be accepted from them and in the hereafter they will be amongst the losers" 3:85

Verily, those who disbelieved, and die while they are disbelievers, the whole earth full of gold will not be accepted from anyone of them even if they offered it as a ransom. For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers" 3:91

The Qu'ran says the kafir will burn in hell.

There are also hadith that say the kafir will burn in hell:

"On the day of judgment a disbeliever will be asked: 'Suppose you had as much gold as to fill the earth, would you offer it to ransom yourself from the hell-fire?' He will reply: 'Yes!' Then it will be said to him: 'You were asked for something easier than that, that you should join none in worship with Allaah, and submit yourself to Him, but you refused'" ( sahih Bukhari )

 

"By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Sahih Muslim, 153).

 

The Quran AND hadith say the Kafir will burn in hell.

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