Heaven and hell |
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hope
Newbie Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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You know very well that I am talking about rejecting faith. You cannot obey Allah (swt) if you reject his PROPHETS. I don't know of any muslims that don't believe in Prophet Mohammed. It's a question of shaddah. Not whether not someone who ALREADY accepts shaddah pays zakat every year or not! Big difference. If there is a question-- what is said in the Qu'ran trumps what is in the hadith. Not that they contradict but the Qu'ran is the direct word of Allah (swt) whereas the hadith are NOT. They can even vary in the degree to the certainity of what they contain. The answer is SO clear in the Qu'ran and you are trying to piece together something from the hadith to support your very assumption that the kaffir will be in jennah. Kaffir in hell eternally. The hadith that you keep referring to is about muslims. ONly musims that have to be purified will be sent to hell before they can enter jennah. It does not apply to kaffirs. Kaffirs go to hell and stays there. Anyway, Since I can't do ijtihad and you can't either I have to go by what scholars read from this. Please read this and if you find anything from another scholar that is different please post here. Thanks. Questions? - [email protected] This means that anybody could be in
Edited by hope |
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rami
Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
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Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem
wa alaikum asalam Hope, can i asume your a sister ?
al-Ma'idah 5:82 Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud.
Lo! those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and then die disbelievers, Allah surely will not pardon them. 47:34
We
have another verse which says the only sin Allah will not forgive is
Idolatry do they contradict each other? no, you can not use the Quran
to contradict another verse in the Quran or hadith this is a basic rule
of Tafsir. They both came from rasul allah. There are many types of
disbelievers some believe in Allah but not rasul allah while others
dont believe in Allah at all.
How does that contradict those who said la illaha illah llah will be taken out of hell, they are in hell ie losers.
Does the hadith i Quote say anything to contradict any of the above? no those who said la illah illah llah will be taken out of hell. You can not use one hadith agaisnt another hadith or Quran against
another verse in the Quran rasul allah did not contradict himself or
what Allah has said. Do you think even a second in hell is easy those who didnt believe
in muhamad will be severly punished in hell but that does not contradict the
hadith and verse i Quoted, I think rasul allah knows the shahadah....La
illaha illah llah Muhamad rasul allah. now if a muslim was to simply
say la illaha illah llah without muhamad rasul allah he would be a
kafir so that last part in the hadith can in no way be talking about
muslims. The hadith itself is a sahih hadith. Regarding your second post i have clarified that in my above post. Edited by rami |
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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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rami
Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549 |
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Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem
wa alaikum assalam
Jazak allah for reminding me of that hadith, it is absolutely ture
and i think it was bad wording on my part if i implied that Allah was
not turning to those people who simply said la ilaha illah llah through
some aspect of his mercy. My point was that Allah himself was pointing
out other atributes than mercy for a reason and we need to look at and
understand why that is. I think it was out of his mercy that Allah turned to this group through his atributes of Power, Majesty, Supremacy and
Greatness becouse
as we know through other ahadith and the Quran Rasul allah is a mercy
for all the worlds and it is he who is interceding for them. Edited by rami |
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Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Hope Salaam, Yes I was implying that but I have to say I disagree with you on another level here. When pluralistic religions use the premise of aligning religions even those whose premise is very distant in actuality the particulars of each religion which promotes peace and co-existence with other humans is indeed the path of Islam! even if the theologies are different the will of God exist in all aspects of life even in the development of religions which deny him and those thatr multiply him. Allah is he who is Lord of all and nothing can exist without him knowing it. I may be a bit unorthodox but I believe that God is merciful and more merciful than how we perceive in his holy book. I believe since the words which God has crystallize in the Qur'an are in the human language its difficult to understand their true purity and when we see the words mercy, paradise, heaven and hell we truly cannot know the knowledge of what each entails therefore we on our behalf cannot judge (rightfully) because such is for God and not mankind even if we are a witness to clear and conscious error. |
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hope
Newbie Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Asalaamu Alaykum brother - I agree with your first statement, but the conclusion you made from the hadith you refer to conflicts .Are you saying that this hadith means that a disbeliever can enter jennah? If so, (forgive me if I am wrong brother) I can�t see how you came to the conclusion. I could just as easily conclude that this hadith mean that even the best of muslims (even a sinless prophet) are mercy of Allah (swt). The ayats I quoted in my other post support this. I think that we should use what we know to make the best choices and help others to see the light and truth that is islam. I don�t want to waste any time or give anyone a false sense of hope. We are ALL at the mercy of Allah (swt) even the best or most pious among us yes, but He has told us in the Qu�ran and sunnah to follow his deen. We are told exactly what to do to be rewarded on Yamul Qiyamat. Jennah has price! It�s not easy to enter. "When Allah created paradise and hell, he sent Jibreel (Gabriel) to paradise, saying: 'Go and look at it and the things I have prepared therein for its inhabitants.' So he went and looked at it and at what Allah had prepared therein for its inhabitants. He then came back and said: 'By your glory, whosoever will hear of it will long to enter it.' So he ordered that it be surrounded by forms of hardship, and said to Jibreel: 'Go back and look at what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants.' So he went back and found that it was surrounded by forms of hardship. Then he came back and said: 'By your glory, I fear that no-one will enter it.'
Then he sent him to the fire of hell saying, 'Go and look at it and what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants.' So he looked at it and saw that it was in layers, one above the other. Then he came back and said: 'By your glory, whoever hears of it will never try to enter it.' So he ordered that it be surrounded by passions and desires, and said: 'Go and see what I have prepared therein for its inhabitants.' So he went and looked at it, then came back and said, 'by your glory, I fear that no-one will escape from entering it.'" (Muslim, Abu Daawud and Imaam Ahmad) I mean if the prophet (pbuh) will enter paradise at the mercy of Allah (swt) do you think a disbeliever actually has any chance?
Edited by hope |
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hope
Newbie Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Wasalaam ! Thank for the reply. It is more clear and I understand that you are saying that anyone who repents and accepts sahaddah at any point before death may be forgiven and Allah (swt) is the most merciful. I agree. I thought you were saying something like those of the Bahai faith or others who say that every religion is a different path to the same source or end because that is not true. If someone rejects true Islam, then it is they who are the losers on the Day of Judgement as Allah has said. Edited by hope |
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hope
Newbie Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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Asalamu Alaiykum brother Rami Just to make clear I know that judism and christianity of today grew out of the corruption of the message sent by Allah's (swt) prophets. I think this was a matter of semantics. I was merely saying that you cannot accept Allah (swt) as your Lord and then deny what he has sent and commanded us to follow. How can you worship if you don't obey? It doesn't make sense. Do you see my point? Anyway I do see your point so we will say that the people of the book all worship Allah (swt) ok. I appreciate the hadith brother rami but there is so much in the Qu'ran that says the kafir will burn in hell. In fact the jew is cursed in the Qu'ran. The christians believe in a trinity that is shrik (the unforgivable sin) so that takes care of the people of the book. And Qu'ran trumps hadith. Lo! those who disbelieve and turn from the way of Allah and then die disbelievers, Allah surely will not pardon them. 47:34 The Qu'ran says the kafir will burn in hell. There are also hadith that say the kafir will burn in hell: "By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Sahih Muslim, 153). The Quran AND hadith say the Kafir will burn in hell. |
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Israfil
Senior Member Joined: 08 September 2003 Status: Offline Points: 3984 |
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Miasghar Ameen
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