Muhammad as a partner with Allah

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

 Gibbs wrote:

I know I'm kinda jumping in late in this thread but I'm curious to ask whether being divine necessarily makes you co-equal to God.

No Gibbs. Like for example angels are divine. But are they even anywhere miles near God's level, forget about co-equalling? Afterall, they're all God's very own creation, if you get what I mean...

 Sign*Reader wrote:

I am flabbergasted that this thread is still running!
 Ron's tenacity in keep saying Mhmd(s) being Allah's partner goes to 
tell it is something to do with your sign of cancer cuz I know few of 
them and their's " my way or highway attitude".

lol. He's hardly got me even bother thinking on anything though. All he does is play around with words to somehow make the Prophet sound something above a human, and every chance he gets a twist and turn things he has a go at it. It mightn't be intentional and he actually might be trying to understand the concept, but he's not yet claimed a solid reason to me which makes him think the Prophet SAW is considered anything of that sort. Oh well all a simple, common sense needs is to read through this Quran verse once to understand it;

"Say (O Muhammad) my prayer, my 
sacrifice, my life and my death 

          belong to Allah; He has no partner and I am ordered to be 
among those 

          who submit, i.e.; Muslims." (6:162, 163)

 Ron Webb wrote:

And by "the message" do you mean only the Quran, or do you 
mean everything he ever said or did?

'The message' is a vague term, and you know it. It refers to every thing God wanted to be directed at the muslims. Yeah, you could say Quran is the foremost message though.

 Ron Webb wrote:

I'm not sure what "not as obligatory as" means -- either they are 
obligatory or they are not -- but if you are saying that the sunnah (and
 the hadith?) are optional, then that would be refreshing.  It would 
only be a small step from there to consider that optional 
recommendations become less and les applicable as the centuries and 
millennia pile up, and that ultimately only the Quran would remain as a 
universal and eternal law.

But I really doubt that many Muslims would agree with that.

You didn't get it 
Yes, they're not obligatory, as in there's a big difference between denying God's direct words and not following Prophet's Sunnah. But, IMO, I said its highly, highly encouraged, and so in the Quran itself, i.e. direct words of God. What does that tell you? That if you truly and sincerely follow God's words, you'd obviously follow the Sunnah.

 Ron Webb wrote:

If that's so, then as I keep asking, what's left?  If 
everything he ever said or did is from Allah, if he never said or did 
anything in his entire life that wasn't directed by Allah, then he is 
far less than a man.  He is a mere automaton, a puppet 
controlled by a higher power.  Do you really believe that?  Surely he 
said and did at least some things on his own.

Dude, you make it sound like he invented his own ways of religion or something of that sort. "If everything he ever did is from Allah..." *Cough* *Cough* Isn't it easy to understand that if you follow the entire Quran properly, everything you do is follow Allah, lol? He was supposed to be a role model for muslims, what's so shocking in him following everything in the Quran and demonstrating that to the muslims in the process.
He's not a "puppet", another wrong term, sir. He's a follower. The difference? Will. Puppets don't have a will. Followers chose to follow one of their own free will.
"Surely he did some things on his own..."
^Yeh, of course he did, he was a human afterall  
So what if he did? Not sure what you're trying to imply here.

 Ron Webb wrote:

When someone asks you to do something, and you do it, isn't it 
reasonable to assume that you are doing it for the one who asks?  Allah 
asks you (in the Quran) to fast, and therefore I assume you are doing it
 for Him; but then if Muhammad tells you how to fast, that 
would imply that you are fasting in that particular way for 
Muhammad.

As I already said earlier, the Prophet SAW didn't create his 'own ways'. The Quran tells us how to fast. A better example would be prayers, it briefly tells us how to pray of course, but someone had to demonstrate how the actions, which are demanded by God, are to be carried out. There is no "Muhammad SAW way" here.

 Ron Webb wrote:

I guess if you truly believe that absolutely everything Muhammad

 said and did was a message from God, then following the sunnah is 
worshipping God.  It just seems to me that that is a very demeaning view
 of Muahmmad, making him utterly without free will or any ideas of his 
own.
I cleared the everything part out already."Ideas of his own"?! I'm pretty sure had someone said he had his own ideas involved in modfying Islam, you'd have gone all "see he has the Godly status too!". If anything, this further goes against your very claim of Muhammad SAW being a partner to Allah, lol. He's passing on God's words here, which are perfect, I'm not sure what need he has to present his own ideas in between.

However, when it came to lifestyle, he had his special ways which I wouldn't call his ideas but more like the way he lived. Those come under Sunnah too. Since he's a role model people do follow them, but I'm not sure if it has much to do with the basic topic.