Muhammad as a partner with Allah

xx__Ace__xx wrote: The words of Muhammad SAW are the words of Allah. The actions of Muhammad SAW are nothing but guidance from Allah. I don't see how its not Allah that we're considering as the Almighty then.

If Muhammad's words and his actions are both from Allah, then what else is there?  In other words, what is there about Muhammad that is just Muhammad?  And if everything about Muhammad is divine, then I find it hard to distinguish the Muslim regard for Muhammad from the Christian regard for Jesus, i.e. "the Word made flesh".

In past discussion it really seemed to come down to little more than the name of the person to whom you address your prayers: Christians will often pray "in Jesus' name", while Muslims always pray directly to Allah.  But it seems a small difference to me, a mere matter of semantics.

xx__Ace__xx wrote: Again, I see you're mixing up with words here. Big time. "If everything about Muhammad is divine", might as well scratch the if cuz its not. Nothing about Muhammad [SAW] is divine, its the message he passed on that is. Makes a mighty massive difference.

How can you say that "nothing about Muhammad is divine", after just having told me that his words are from Allah, and his actions are guidance from Allah?  Are not the words and the guidance of Allah divine?  Doesn't that make Muhammad's words and actions divine?

Many Muslims have told me that everything Muhammad ever said or did was guided by Allah (which is why they consider him to be infallible).  Others have said no, only certain words and actions which scholars have determined to be relevant to Islam, while others are not.  What do you think?

Ron Webb wrote: If we regard Muhammad SAW highly and respectfully as a messenger of the Almighty, it no way means we regard him anything above a human being and hence there's no worshipping of Muhammad [SAW] anywhere in Islam.

That depends on how you define "worship", and you haven't done that yet.

Ron Webb wrote: How can you say that "nothing about Muhammad is divine", after just having told me that his words are from Allah, and his actions are guidance from Allah?  Are not the words and the guidance of Allah divine?  Doesn't that make Muhammad's words and actions divine?

If you read that particular part carefully, what I tried to imply was, its not him that is above a human being, or him that has anything to do with having any sort of supernatural power, but what's divine here is the message of God he passed on. ["its the message he passed on that is"]
As for his actions, let me give you an example, we muslims have a specific method of praying which is compromised of certain procedures, how do you think that was demonstrated? From Muhammad [SAW]. Now that involves divinity, cuz he taught the muslims of that time the way of praying instructed by God. That's one type of action.
Now, there are also actions of his which we call 'Sunnah'. They can roughly be described as the ways of the lifestyle of Prophet SAW. Common and simplest examples include not lying, treating everyone with respect and a smile, being kind, and etc etc. These actions are not as obligatory as God's direct words, but God himself highly encourages muslims in the Quran to try and follow them. Now if we follow the Sunnah, does that mean we treat Muhammad [SAW] as some sort of higher being? No, it simply means we're following what God made a role model for us, and that's definitely not worshipping him.

Ron Webb wrote: Many Muslims have told me that everything Muhammad ever said or did was guided by Allah (which is why they consider him to be infallible).  Others have said no, only certain words and actions which scholars have determined to be relevant to Islam, while others are not.  What do you think?

Simply put, all actions and sayings of his (which are perfectly confirmed were said by him), are believed to be infallible, if you put it so, because they were nothing but guidance from God himself, through the Prophet SAW of course.

Ron Webb wrote: That depends on how you define "worship", and you haven't done that yet.

Well, I thought I'd cleared it for you, but nevermind I'll put it in clearer wordings. It might require a pretty lot of details to get specific, but I'll try to be as brief as possible. Commonly, worshipping is a ritualistic act such as prayers, adressed directly to God, fasting, charity, etc etc, which too are done for no one but God.
Now additionally, there's something really beautiful and unique to Islam. Comprehensively, you can also definie worship as any activity of a muslim done for God. In other words, worship is everything one says and does for the pleasure of God. This, of course, includes rituals as well as beliefs, social activities and personal contirbutions to the welfare of one's fellow human beings. Islam looks at the individual as whole, and every muslim, with none for an exception, is to submit himself/herself completely to God, which includes even the Prophet [SAW] (helps towards your basic question as well) as instructed by the Quran itself he passed on;

"Say (O Muhammad) my prayer, my sacrifice, my life and my death belong to Allah; He has no partner and I am ordered to be among those who submit, i.e.; Muslims." (6:162, 163)

I'll paste something from a source I found which described this in a lovely way, (saves me time too );
The natural result of this submission is that all one's activities should conform to the instructions of the one to whom the person is submitting. Islam, being a way of life, requires that its followers model their life according to its teachings in every aspect, religious or other wise. This might sound strange to some people who think of religion as a personal relation between the individual and God, having no impact on one's activities outside rituals. As a matter of fact Islam does not think much of mere rituals when they are performed mechanically and have no influence on one's inner life.

To help make it even clearer for you, have a read of some of what the Prophet [SAW] said,

"Whoever finds himself at the nightfall tired of his work, God will forgive his sins."

Seeking knowledge is one of the highest types of worship. The Prophet told his companions that "seeking knowledge is a (religious) duty on every Muslim." In another saying he said:
"Seeking knowledge for one hour is better than praying for seventy years."

Social courtesy and cooperation are part of worship when done for the sake of Allah as the Prophet told us:
"Receiving your friend with a smile is a type of charity, helping a person to load his animal is a charity and putting some water in your neighbor's bucket is a charity."

A further little from the very same source : "It is worth noting that even performing one's duties is considered a sort of worship. The Prophet told us that whatever one spends for his family is a type of charity; he will be rewarded for it if he acquires it through legal means. Kindness to members of one's family is an act of worship as when one puts a piece of food in his spouse's mouth. Not only this but even the acts we enjoy doing very much, when they are performed according to the instructions of the Prophet, are considered as acts of worship. The Prophet told his companions that they will be rewarded even for having sexual intercourse with their wives. The companions were astonished and asked: "How are we going to be rewarded for doing something we enjoy very much?" The Prophet asked them: "Suppose you satisfy your desires illegally; don't you think that you will be punished for that?" They replied, "Yes." "So," he said, "by satisfying it legally with your wives you are rewarded for it." This means they are acts of worship. Thus Islam does not consider sex a dirty thing that one should avoid. It is dirty and sinful only when it is satisfied outside marital life."


Now, I'm sure you've gotten the basic idea of what worship in Islam really is, i.e. generally speaking a comprehensive concept that includes all the positive activities of the individual. If while performing the positive acts you tell yourself you're not only doing this for your/ your family's/ society's/ environement's welfare but also to please God, then you're actually worshipping God and attaining blessings!

Moving back to Prophet SAW's actions, Sunnah, when you follow them,  you're namely following the Prohet SAW,  but in reality worshipping no one but God, as God himself highly encourages us to follow the positive actions of our role model and messenger.

Hope I was able to to increase your clearance on this matter. And I can't believe I've actually written a wall of text. I rarely do

xx__Ace__xx wrote: If you read that particular part carefully, what I tried to imply was, its not him that is above a human being, or him that has anything to do with having any sort of supernatural power, but what's divine here is the message of God he passed on. ["its the message he passed on that is"]