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Quote cookiejar Replybullet Topic: No intimacy - seeking divorce??
    Posted: 02 September 2009 at 3:09pm
I like to know on what grounds can a woman seeks for divorce? My husband have not been intimate with me for the past couple of months. I've only been married for 4yrs and together we have a son. I noticed that soon after I had my son, he sort of turning himself off. My son is 3yrs old now. He always gave me the reasons that he's too tired and stress from work. I'm a housewife. My husband is a converts and how do I make him understand that if he don't do his bid as a husband, I can seek fasahk. I always asked him these question that sometimes I felt so embarassed and felt like as if I'm so desperate.
Of course there's no Syariah court here in U.S and I just don't know how to go about. I prayed many times and asking Allah to guide me but I think my marriage cannot be saved apart from this problem. I want to save myself from making any sins, I don't want to look for other men while still in marriage but I feels so neglected and very lonely.
Please just an honest opinion. No need to back lash or anything, I've been crying day in day out.
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Quote Pati Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2009 at 10:42pm

Hi cookiejar,

Well, I don't think that two months without intimating is something to worry about. Maybe he was hones with you, and it's because of work and stress.
You have to be patience, and support him the most, don't blame him because of this, and just try to understand him and to stay there in a lovely way to make him back to you.
If a woman has a husband, well, more than that, the father of her children with her, I cannot understand why she should look for another one.
Just try to make him look for you as he was doing before, try to make him want you. It's easy, and as you are married, you should not feel shy because of looking for him... but please, don't blame him. Maybe he has problems in his work and if you are becaming another problem, he may keep himself away from you (men are different than us, their bigger problem is that they are not used to talk about their problems, in general, and sometimes we feel lost trying to understand them without having the information).
Really, I don't think that few months without intimate relation can be a cause of divorce. Just try to regain him.
I am always saying the same, but sometimes, men feel jealous after getting babies, so, you can start trying to leave your child with someone during a weekend (your parents, a close friend, ...).
But it's going to take time to you, don't keep these thoughts about divorce in your mind. Better to think about the good things he had and that made you fall in love with him.
Best wishes,
No God wants the killing, but the peace.
The weapons are carried by people, not by religions.
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Quote Akhe Abdullah Replybullet Posted: 02 September 2009 at 11:37pm
As Salamu Alaikum Sister CJ Welcome to the forum.Ramadan Mubarak.A little advice you dont want to go into to many intimate details here,You can also send Private Messages.I'm sorry to hear this news you say two months?I always thought it was the women who holds out this way.How long has he been Muslim?Did he do it for you or because he loves Allah?(Forgive me if I over step)It is not usual that a man converts to the religion of the women but Al Hamduillah! it's Al Islam, and speaking of that it kind of makes you the guieder because you posses more Knowledge of Deen than him right? How is that working?Pati had a point,when some people are stressed out with maintaining a household by themselves physical interactions dont help some peolpe.He may worry about the possibility of having another child (maybe.)You know there are other ways of being intimate?Ive been Married twice before 11 yrs total and what I found out was that when the marriage starts being more about buisness it's no fun,keep trying sister. build a stronger relationship with Allah and make that the bond that holds your family together and nothing will tear it apart.InshAllah Ta ala.May Allah Bless you and your family and May Allah Help you two thru this.Remember sister whatever the stiuation good or bad its always (Al Hamduillah).
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Quote cookiejar Replybullet Posted: 03 September 2009 at 7:01am
Hi.. thanks for the reply.. just to correct, I never mentioned two months.. but for couple of months.. to be precise 11mths now..
I read somewhere, it's wrong for the husband to ignore and neglect the wife needs. I can seek fasakh..
Yes, I agree I shouldn't have broadcast my personal matter over the Islamic forum. Not Decent maybe! So seriously..
Well, anyway.. he convert because of me I guess, he's been a convert for 5yrs now.. not really practicing anything yet.. used to fast on weekend but now hardly, although I try to encourage him.. I don't want to be a nagging wife cos I'm liberal myself. I don't put on the hijab but I do pray from time to time and always fasting when Ramadan comes. I pay the zakat etc.. I always asked him to go to the mosque with me to learn more and get together with other new muslims.. but he always have excuses to avoid it. Recently, he just got himself a new tattoo to cover his old tattoo cos it's fading.. whatever that is! We got into a big fight over this.. and I tried to explain to him this and that.. Tattoo is haram etc.. he demamded more explaination.. it's tough! Other than that, yes he's a wonderful husband always taking care of his family..

Edited by cookiejar - 03 September 2009 at 7:18am
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Quote Hayfa Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2009 at 8:48am
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Asalaam Alaikum,

Welcome to the Forum.


It seems that you have several issues going on in your marriage


First if someone became a Muslim for marriage, and not for the Deen and for Allah then there is great potential  for trouble. And only he knows why he did the Shahada.  As you said you are ‘liberal’ in your practice... then its pretty hard to then tell him to pick this and pick that he should follow.   It seems that he may not have understood what Islam is about- Belief and Action.  Not that it helps now, it is why we women are told to marry for Deen and Character. He may not have had a clue. Saw that you seem 'nice and middle of the road,' married you and had no idea.


I think you need to evaluate what YOU want as a Muslim. Are you becoming closer to Allah? Are you improving yourself in your Deen?  Is this central to your life?  As we age we tend to focus more on religion / faith  / our own mortality-which could end at any moment. If he is not praying and fasting after 5 years.. well honestly why is he a Muslim? Is he a Muslim.. really?  … a rhetorical question.


I think that also if he comes from another religion or no religion, many have very few ‘rules.’ It is a big change to have to look at Islam for all the guidelines.. like yes, getting a tattoo..  I know when I was learning about Islam and being a Muslim for 5 years I have never stopped having an appetite for learning about Islam.  What does he really do regarding his faith… another rhetorical question.


Intimacy: Yes men and women have the Right to intimacy (unles one agrees to give it up). And yes, Islamically it is grounds for divorce.  But seems there are several issues in your marriage.. like are you truly compatible religiously. And maybe you though t you were when you married??  People change or have the best of intentions and it does not work out.  I believe it would be different if he was say away fighting a way. But you have every right to intimacy. You would need to talk to a Scholar or Iman about the Shariah.


Marriage is a contract. First and foremost. As an Iman was saying we get caught up in the ‘wedding’ and the ‘love.’ But ultimately it is far more than that. Most people don’t know their Right and Responsibilities in marriage.  Too many marriages get into trouble cause people just don’t know.


Is there any way you can go for counseling? Will he listen to someone? 


Also, if you bring up any other point of Islam with him, bring Hadith or information from a reputable scholar. I know I could not give all the proofs,  most of us cannot. So bring it with you if you approach him.


Also, I do not think you are broadcasting your personal problems all over the interent.. It’s just a question.   Now if you told everyone his name and address you might over-step.


My duas for you sister.

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Quote Shasta'sAunt Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2009 at 9:32am
Assalamu Alaikum Sister:
Hopefully this will help:

Khula’ah is the prerogative of a wife as divorce is a male privilege. A wife does not have to have a lengthy list of genuinely Islamic reasons to initiate the process of Khula’ah. She also does not need consent from her husband to do so. As divorce is a right of husband Khula’ah constitutes a thorough choice of a wife. We do not see any restrictions placed upon a wife in this regard by the Prophet (PBUH) himself. Jamilah bint Salul got Khula’ah through the Prophet (PBUH) just because she did not like her husband. The Prophet (PBUH) asked her to return the garden which she took as dowry from him.

وأخرجه ٱبن ماجة عن قتادة عن عكرمة عن ٱبن عباس. أن جميلة بنت سَلُول أتت النبيّ صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالت: والله ما أعيب على ثابت في دِين ولا خُلق ولكني أكره الكفر في الإسلام، لا أطيقه بغضا فقال لها النبيّ صلى الله عليه وسلم: «أتردّين عليه حديقته»؟ قالت: نعم. فأمره رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم أن يأخذ منها حديقته ولا يزداد. فيقال: إنها كانت تبغضه أشدّ البغض، وكان يحبها أشدّ الحبّ؛ ففرّق رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم بينهما بطريق الخُلع؛ فكان أوّل خُلع في الإسلام.


Imam al-Showkani argues that any discord between the husband and wife would constitute sufficient ground for her to demand emancipation from him. It does not have to be mutual as is clear from the above Hadith. Thabit bin Qais loves her but his wife Jamilah does not like him. The Prophet (PBUH) did not ask Thabit whether or not she should proceed with Khula’ah. He granted her Khula’ah without asking any questions just with one condition that the dowry is to be returned.


وظاهر أحاديث الباب أن مجرد وجود الشقاق من قبل المرأة كاف في جواز الخلع. واختار ابن المنذر أنه لا يجوز حتى يقع الشقاق منهما جميعاً وتمسك بظاهر الآية. وبذلك قال طاوس والشعبي وجماعة من التابعين. وأجاب عن ذلك جماعة منهم الطبري بأن المراد أنها إذا لم تقم بحقوق الزوج كان ذلك مقتضياً لبغض الزوج لها فنسبت المخالفة إليهما لذلك، ويؤيد عدم اعتبار ذلك من جهة الزوج أنه صلَّى اللَّهُ عليه وآله وسلَّم يستفسر ثابتاً عن كراهته لها عند إعلانها بالكراهة له.


The restrictions placed upon demands of Khula’ah by later jurists are based upon their Ijtihad in view of the customs of their societies as well as to curtail misuse of such a blank check to initiate the Khula’ah process. Moreover, Khula’ah can be finalized without a court as divorce can be exacted without any intervention from the court. Ibn Hajr puts the point in the nutshell:


ومن حيث النظر أن الطلاق جائز دون الحاكم فكذلك الخلع، ثم الذي ذهب إليه مبني على أن وجود الشقاق شرط في الخلع والجمهور على خلافه

This was the tradition followed at the time of the four Caliphs and later rulers continued it as Sunan al-Bayhaqi reports:

حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا وكيع عن شعبة عن الحكم عن خيثمة قال : أتى بشير بن مروان في خلع كان بين رجل وامرأة فلم يجزه فقال له عبد الله بن شهاب الخولاني : شهدت عمر بن الخطاب أتي في خلع كان بين رجل وامرأته فأجازه.

(2) حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا وكيع عن شعبة عن الحكم عن الشعبي أن شريحا أجاز خلعا دون السلطان.

(3) حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا ابن علية عن أيوب عن نافع عن الربيع بنت معوذ بن عفراء أن عمها خلعها من زوجها وكان يشرب الخمر دون عثمان فأجاز ذلك عثمان.

(4) حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا ابن إدريس عن هشام عن ابن سيرين قال : الخلع جائز دون السلطان.

(5) حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا عبد الاعلى عن معمر عن الزهري أنه قال : الخلع جائز دون السلطان.


Unlike divorce, Khula’ah can be demanded during wife’s monthly cycle or during even pregnancy and delivery periods. The wife becomes master of her own affairs and enjoys an absolute independence after the Khula’ah. The husband does not have the right to revoke the Khula’ah or demand a return to normalcy in marital relations. They can remarry with a new dowry and new Nikah contract if she agrees to it during her Iddah. The Iddah in this case is only one monthly cycle and not three as is the case with Talaaq. The following Hadith reported by Tirmizi manifestly supports this point.


حَدَّثَنَا مَحْمُودُ بْنُ غَيْلَانَ أَنْبَأَنَا الْفَضْلُ بْنُ مُوسَى عَنْ سُفْيَانَ أَنْبَأَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ وَهُوَ مَوْلَى آلِ طَلْحَةَ عَنْ سُلَيْمَانَ بْنِ يَسَارٍ عَنْ الرُّبَيِّعِ بِنْتِ مُعَوِّذِ بْنِ عَفْرَاءَ أَنَّهَا اخْتَلَعَتْ عَلَى عَهْدِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَأَمَرَهَا النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَوْ أُمِرَتْ أَنْ تَعْتَدَّ بِحَيْضَةٍ

قَالَ وَفِي الْبَاب عَنْ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى حَدِيثُ الرُّبَيِّعِ بِنْتِ مُعَوِّذٍ الصَّحِيحُ أَنَّهَا أُمِرَتْ أَنْ تَعْتَدَّ بِحَيْضَةٍ


أَنْبَأَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحِيمِ الْبَغْدَادِيُّ أَنْبَأَنَا عَلِيُّ بْنُ بَحْرٍ أَنْبَأَنَا هِشَامُ بْنُ يُوسُفَ عَنْ مَعْمَرٍ عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ مُسْلِمٍ عَنْ عِكْرِمَةَ عَنْ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ أَنَّ امْرَأَةَ ثَابِتِ بْنِ قَيْسٍ اخْتَلَعَتْ مِنْ زَوْجِهَا عَلَى عَهْدِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَأَمَرَهَا النَّبِيُّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَنْ تَعْتَدَّ بِحَيْضَةٍ

قَالَ أَبُو عِيسَى هَذَا حَدِيثٌ حَسَنٌ غَرِيبٌ وَاخْتَلَفَ أَهْلُ الْعِلْمِ فِي عِدَّةِ الْمُخْتَلِعَةِ فَقَالَ أَكْثَرُ أَهْلِ الْعِلْمِ مِنْ أَصْحَابِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَغَيْرِهِمْ إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الْمُخْتَلِعَةِ عِدَّةُ الْمُطَلَّقَةِ ثَلَاثُ حِيَضٍ وَهُوَ قَوْلُ سُفْيَانَ الثَّوْرِيِّ وَأَهْلِ الْكُوفَةِ وَبِهِ يَقُولُ أَحْمَدُ وَإِسْحَقُ قَالَ بَعْضُ أَهْلِ الْعِلْمِ مِنْ أَصْحَابِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ وَغَيْرِهِمْ إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الْمُخْتَلِعَةِ حَيْضَةٌ قَالَ إِسْحَقُ وَإِنْ ذَهَبَ ذَاهِبٌ إِلَى هَذَا فَهُوَ مَذْهَبٌ قَوِيٌّ


Although the majority of scholars maintain that the Iddah of Khula’ah is three monthly cycles as is the case with the Talaaq, many known authorities such as Ibn Umar, Ishaq, Ibn Taymiyyah and others argue that Khula’ah is different than Talaaq and its Iddah is just one monthly cycle. Al-Bayhaqi reports:

عبيد الله بن عمر عن نافع ان ابن عمر رضى الله عنه أخبره ان ربيع بنت معوذ بن عفراء اختلعت من زوجها على عهد  عثمان رضى الله عنه فذهب عمها معاذ بن عفراء إلى عثمان رضى الله عنه فقال ان ابنة معوذ قد اختلعت من زوجها اليوم أفتنتقل فقال عثمان رضى الله عنه تنتقل وليس عليها عدة انها لا تنكح حتى تحيض حيضة واحدة - فقال عبد الله عثمان اكبرنا واعلمنا فهذه الرواية تصرح بأن عثمان رضى الله عنه هو الذى امرها بذلك وظاهر الكتاب في عدة المطلقات يتناول المختلعة وغيرها فهو اولى

By Dr. Zulfiqar A. Shah 

Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 04 September 2009 at 9:33am
“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”
Eleanor Roosevelt
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