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Is Mohammad the Last Prophet of Allah?

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AhmadJoyia View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 July 2005 at 8:04am

This topic came up in discussion under topic "A former mormon needs some advice ", however since its a seperate topic, hence being transferred from there. Here is my reply to brother community's comments. I have just picked from his quotes where the discussion got diverted, however, those who are interested, may refer back to the above thread for some of the progress made in this direction over there. 

Originally posted by Community Community wrote:

Muhammed is Khatim annubuwwa, my point is, we as muslims have our test too, like the jews and christians before us, do we accept the truth when it comes to us? jews denied messengers of Allah, Jesus and Muhammed amongst those rejected by them, christians denied Muhammed, so how about us muslims? surely the test with messengers either accepting them or denying them also applies to muslims, it can not be that we are just skipped over.....

My bro Community, your logic on the line of reasoning with regard to previous nations is simply refuted because none of the Prophets (Moses and Isa) claimed to be the final prophet of Allah, rather they indicated to their people for the one coming after them. However, the same is not true when the last of the Prophets came i.e. Prophet Mohammad. Not only in Quran (attestation from Allah in verse 33:40) but Prophet Mohammad himself has categorically stated this fact through numerous authentic ahadith. Hence your logic doesn't stand its merit of consideration at all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2005 at 12:39pm

The bible nor the koran reffers to Muhammed as the last MESSENGER, Akhir means last, khatim means seal, and to some it means attest. There is also khatam al quran, which means the completion of the recital of the whole koran, it does not mean that the koran will not be recited again. So clearly khatim (seal) does not mean akhir(last). But it indicates a comletion. Nowhere in the koran does Allah say that muhammed is "akhir arrosul" last of the messengers. Or in anyway tells us that Muhammed is the last messenger, except when people used "khatim annubuwwa" as meaning the last messenger, this is dishonest, first because it says khatim which means seal and not akhir which means last, secondly it says nubuwwa which is translated as Prophethood. Thirdly there is a difference between nabiy(prophet) and rasool(sent one) and then there is also the word Mursaleen(the sent ones with a certain message that already exists) because you can say mursaloona bi al quraan which means sent(plural) with the koran, so they are mursaleen. Hard to accept for some maybe, but so was it for those jews and christians before the muslims, and you will not find in the way(tradition, sunnat) of Allah any change, or any other situation. "Lan tajida fee sunnati Allahi tahweelan walaa taghieeran" The best provision is the fear of Allah, this will help someone not to reject truth when it comes to him, he will hear the truth or be careful to reject anything said because he will stand before Allah who will judge with Truth. Being proud like the jews by thinking they are right without being truthful, because they could'nt be truthful, because it would mean they would have to admit they were wrong and take a step down from their position which they got used to and obviously did not want to give it up made them losers, and shame is upon them. Allah tests mankind, and every time it occured that some people reject a messenger or prophet when they came to them with the truth, so we all should be really careful with rejecting, because it might be the truth, we should be truthful and look into what is said, if the goal is the truth. And Allah is the manifest Truth. So what is the critirion? al furqaan? al qur'an, the koran, not people and their methodologies. Or do you really think it is truthful to accept words outside of the koran which PEOPLE claim to be from the prophet, rather then the words of the Allah?, If Muhammed was the last messenger, this would mean we would be excluded from the test of accepting a messenger or rejecting him...the test is, how do we know the words ascribed to the prophet are authentic? if they do not go against the koran right? So how is it possible to say khatim annubuwwa means the last messenger? The meanings contradict, and the rest as you say confirming that he is the last prophet comes from "ahadith" which you claim to be authentic but you can not be sure of that...you know how much power struggle there was in history? do you know how many believers were killed and messengers killed? If the truth is even hidden nowadays about things that just happened recently, how so will this be for what happened 1400 years ago....so you can go ahead and say they are authentic because people say they are authentic. But this in no way means it is true. Honestly it resembles the christians claim of the holy spirit coming down on them and inventing stuff into the religion, or the jews who hold to the words of their rabbis (the talmud) So to me your logic does not stand it's merrit of consideration at all. Maybe for a jew or christian it would...although they do not hold to your beliefs...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AhmadJoyia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2005 at 1:38pm

Thanks bro Community for your comments. Even with your own accepted definition of word Khatim when you say "khatim means seal, and to some it means attest. There is also khatam al quran, which means the completion......... " doesn't it imply completion of Prophethood? If it does mean 'completion', as you have suggested, then 'completion' implies 'finishing' and the one who is closest to finishing must be called the 'last'. Isn't it? Think about it.

Though I do reserve my remarks about your comments on ahadith and its authenticity, however, presently I would like to say on your comments "So to me your logic does not stand it's merrit of consideration at all. Maybe for a jew or christian it would...although they do not hold to your beliefs...". Here you have not presented any logic or evidence except confusing statement in negating my logical refutation on previous post as on one side you say "maybe it would" and then say "although they do not". Can you clarify you position with evidence.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:15pm

Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) left Ali b. Abi Talib behind him (as he proceeded) to the expedition of Tabuk, whereupon he ('Ali) said: "Allah's Messenger, are you leaving me behind amongst women and children?" Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: "Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there would be no prophet after me."

 

Here is a good read as well: http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/finalproph et.html

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Community Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2005 at 4:55pm

Khatim annubuwwa, the name Muhammed means the praised one, as Muhammed salla Allahu alayhi wa sallam was the seal of prophet it ment all previous prophets are confirmed by him, and also recognized in him by those who have understanding, because i believe he had all the qualities of all the prophets before him, he was a confirmation of all the previous prophets, the seal and the completer of prophethood. As for the claim by people that this means he was the last messenger, i do not agree, because there is no refference of this claim in the koran. Moreover people obviously still need to be reminded. No mursil(messenger) will claim to be on the same level as Nabiyu Allah Muhammad salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam or above him, but they will come with the truth, and the truth they come with will be confirmed by the koran, indjeel and torah. And most people do not love the truth so they will face hardships. There is always an "esteblishment" and when someone comes with the truth, and it does 'nt go along their wishes they go against it.

why do so many people, even arabic speaking people say Allahu Akbar means Allah is great, greatest while the only true meaning is Allah is greater? This is the truth. Do you see lies and deceptions as being small because you do not understand their implications? it seems alot of arabic speaking people are blind to their own language, what causes this blindness, or is it deception?

Why do scholars and so many muslims try to convert jews and christians to their ways instead of making the verses known where Allah urges them to implement their own books(torah and indjeel)?

5verse47: "Let the people of the Evangel(gospel) judge by what Allah has sent down therein, and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are the perverted."

Yusuf Ali interpretation of the koran:

5:68 Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over (these) people without Faith.

More correct version "koran 5 verse 68" say:"O people of the book(bible comes from the latin word bibleo which means book).O people of the book ye are upon nothing, unless ye make firm(implement) The Torah, the Evangel(gospel), and that which is sent down to you from thy Lord". And that which is sent down to thee from thy Lord increaseth in most of them their arrogance and ungratefullness, so sorrow thouself not over the (disbelieving) ungrateful people.

Now how can yusuf Ali who supposedly knows arabic be so wrong in  translating "and that which is sent down to you" as "and ALL the revelation that has come to you " AND ALL THE REVELATION? first of all it is not and all the revelation but and that which is sent down to you, (for instance Jesus is not the son of Allah, he did not die on the cross) These mistakes in translations are not interpretations but they are flat out wrong, maybe small nuances to you but they are flat out wrong. This is no Interpretation of the koran, unless it be by some methodology(the torah and indjeel do not count anymore, and all should only hold to the koran) and with this it become understandable to me why these kind of lies and deceptions are put forward as interpretations of the koran..

What is wrong with the supposedly faithful not obeying the commands of Allah in the koran?

9:34 O ye who believe!  indeed many of the priests and anchorites,  devour the substance of men with falsehood and hinder (block) from the way of Allah. And there are those who hord up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah. so give them the good news of a painful torment-

This verse is from surat attawba, chapter the repentance, so where are the faithful? those who are spoken to to GIVE THEM THE GOOD NEWS of a painful torment. Do you not hear the name of this chapter? the repentance...do you not understand?


Why do not muslims look at them who were before us, and fear Allah and look into their mistakes of making their scholars and other people as gods besides Allah by taking their words over the words of Allah, and making all kinds of methodologies to support their lies?(they say "the prophet said: if someone refutes you with the koran, then refute him with the sunnah", now who will accept this as truth except a liar?) Allah truely favored this community but they still engage in the same thing as those before them, and like them, they see themselves as superior. What have they done? made their faith into a way to gain power through mixing it with lies and deceptions? for what reason? All power belongs to Allah, and everyone will come to know this. you better be on the side of Al Haqq, The Truth. And a truth is that there is no power or situation except by Allah. So lose your anger, and your stiving for power, you have no right to be angry with all your sins and lies while Allah is still patient with you and merciful, and as for your striving for power, To Allah is all the power, and the messenger and the true faithful, these do not lie and deceive to gain power, but are given it by Allah, through truth. 

Am yaqooloona bihi jinnatun bal jaahum bi alhaqqi wa aktharuhum lilhaqqi karihoona

23:70 Or do they say, "He is possessed"? Nay, he came to them with  the Truth, but most of them hate the Truth. {Al-Mu'minun [23:70]}

 

     "Laqad jinaakum bilhaqqi walakinna aktharakum lilhaqqi karihoona"

Az-Zukhruf [43:78]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:01pm

I totally agree with you, Community.

I think the reason why Allahu Akbar is usually translated into "Allah is Great/greatest" is because that's what most people think it is. Even Arab speaking Muslims don't realize that it actually means Allah is Greater. Some might know, but don't want to go into the philosophy behind it (why it's greater instead of greatest) so they simply say "Allah is Greatest".

And yes... I too sometimes wonder why Muslims work extra hard in preaching to Christians/Jews instead of preaching to, say, Hindus or atheists.


029.046 And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow."

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yusuf. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:08pm

Assalamu alaikum,

"'akbar" is technically the elative form of "kabir," "great." It is a comparative "greater" only when followed by the preposition "min" and the basis of comparison placed in the genitive case. For example, "hiya u'Sdaqu min akhika" means "she is more truthful than your father." If it is not followed by anything, the elative is the superlative, not comparative. Thus, "Allahu 'Akbar" means "God is Greatest," not greater.

In fact, it is semantically incorrect, in any language I know of, to modify a noun with a comparative adjective without the basis of comparison.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:21pm

Using your example...

Person A: "Hiya asdaqu min akhika" ("She is more truthful than you brother").
Person B: "Lakin akhi asdaq" ("But my brother is more truthful").

Notice the lack of "min" after "asdaq". Still semantically correct.

In the case of "allahu akbar", the implication is "Allah is Greater [than everything]", which is almost the same as saying "Allah is Greatest."



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