"FUTURE" THOUGHTS

truthnowcome wrote: Douggg wrote: Hi, I am 60 years old and have been a Christian since my early twenties.   Bible prophecy is my passion and I studied it intensely for most of my adult life. Doug L. Peace my friend, welcome to the truth! Good to hear that, but according to what you have mentioned it doesn�t seems to me you�ve got it right, in other words, you didn�t see the other side. Douggg wrote: If you want to know the future of Islam, one has to know (1) what Judaism is expecting of their forthcoming messiah (someone other than Jesus (2) about the reign and rule of the Antichrist.  Because Islam and the muslim nations in the middle east definitely are a factor. Doug L. That is what I am saying and you are so wrong! If you want to know the future of Islam find out here on this link: MUHAMMAD & QURAN FORETOLD IN BIBBLE 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 ... 20 21

Hi Mr. Zainool,

Jesus warned of false prophets that would come after him and will lead many astray.  Mohamed is the greatest of those so far.   But he will be out done by the Antichrist and False Prophet in Revelation.

Islam will be destroyed at Gog/Magog which immediately precedes the 7 year time of the Antichrist.   At the midpoint of that 7 year, the slain and resurrected Antichrist, thenceforth called "the beast" will deceive the whole world into believing him to be god.    With the exception of those who's name are written in the Lamb's book of Life, Revelation 13:8.   Since muslims don't believe that Jesus is the Lamb of God who was sent to take away the sins of the world, their names are not written in the Lamb's book of Life, slain meaning crucified, from the foundation of the world.    That's how long God has prepared the way of redemption of man's fall at the garden of Eden.   Here's the verse...

Revelation 13:8 And ALL that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Douggg wrote: To the point, Islam as a worldwide religion as it is now will be destroyed (not by Christians nor the Jews) just before the arrival of Antichrist  - who will poise as Judiasm's messiah.    When Islam is destroyed, and the Antichrist arrives in Jerusalem right afterwards.    The Jews will think that the world has entered the messianic time of peace. Here is the biblical support.   In Ezekiel 38, all of the countries listed with the exception of Russia are Muslim countries.    God, Himself, by supernatural means, will destroy Islam because of the false teachings that it has advanced. Stop dreaming my friend! Islam is not false. First you have to explain who these people are and where they come from: Rev.2:9 says: �I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.�

No, I do not have to explain Revelation 2:9.   The countries listed in Ezekiel 38 & 39 are muslim, except for Russia, which is a muslim ally and is providing weapons and nuclear support for Iran.    And it is the muslims who want Israel destroyed.   They have already made at least three major efforts, since Israel became a nation again,  but God has turned the muslims back every single time.  Gog/Magog will be the last time.

Regarding Revelation 2:9, I am aware of the Muslim attempt to twist Ezekiel 38 & 39 to claim the invaders are false Jews coming out of Europe.   Are those teachings specific to Ezekiel 38 & 39 found in the Quran or Hadiths?  If not, it is innovations.

Douggg wrote: In Ezekiel 39, the seven year time of the Antichrist is the seven years of Israel burning the remains of the invading Russian/Muslim armies (probably the diesel) for fuel instead of wood. Now here is something that you are almost certainly not aware.   But I invite you to read (from the King James version) Ezekiel 39:4 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.   Those two passages deal with the birds and beasts of the field eating up the carcasses of the dead. However, it is describing "two" feasts, not one, separated by 7 years.     The Ezekiel 39:4 feast is the Gog/Magog feast.    Then in Ezekiel 39:17-20 that feast is the Armageddon feats that comes 7 years later.   I can elaborate futher if you want, as to why those are two different feasts.    That is your hoping and wishful thinking, you are more wrong here than ever. The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 tie into Revelation 19:17-18 and it is not the Armageddon it is the beginning in the making of Armageddon, wrong here again also Armageddon comes first then a thousand year after will be the destruction of Gog and Magog which leads us into the Day of Judgment, It�s all in Revelation 20. WAKE UP!

The feast in Ezekiel 39:17-20 does tie to Revelation 19:17-18, agreed.  Yes, it is the Armageddon feast because in Revelation 16:13-16, the beast (the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and the dragon (Satan) seduce the world's kings to make war upon Jesus in attempt to stop Jesus's return.  The assemble, gather themselfs, at Aramageddon. Revelation 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

There are no more mention of "Aramgeddon" afterwards in the Christian bible.

After Aramageddon, Jesus reigns and rules upon this earth for 1000 years.  At the end of the 1000 years, Satan is released from the bottomless pit for a short time and leads another rebellion.   Gog and Magog included.

Your argument is that because Gog/Magog are at the end of the thousand years, Ezekiel 38 & 39 is timed to be at the end of the thousand years, right?

Your arguments is incorrect, because (1) Gog is a fallen angel, like the Prince of Persia, and the Prince of Greece of Daniel 10 (2) Magog is the area that Gog has influence over.   In Daniel 12, the angel that watches over Israel is Michael.

So Gog is not a man.   That is how he can appear in the pre- Antichrist reign, in Ezekiel 38-39 and again a thousand years later at the end of Jesus's millenial reign on thise present earth.

Here's the bible proof of why Ezekiel 38-39 is not at the end of the thousand years, in Revelation 20.     Following the Ekeziel invasion of Gog/Magog, there is a clean up of the land and 7 years of burning the remains (the diesel IMO) of Gog's army as fuel.  As well as cleaning up the land of all the dead bodies, which takes 7 months and Ezekiel 39:12-16 gives great detail of the cleaning of the land.

However, in Revelation 20, following Satan's last rebellion, accompanied by Gog, againover the land of Magog, leading a great multitude are quickly destroyed by fire coming down from heaven to consume all of them.     

THERE ARE NO SEVEN YEARS FOLLOWING the Gog/Magog attack in Revelation 20, like in Ezekiel 39.    THERE IS NO CLEANSING OF THE LAND like in Ezekiel 39.... because it says there is no more heaven and earth afterwards.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

Following the great white throne Judgement, it says in Revelation 21, there is a new heaven, a new earth, and a new Jerusalem

Chapter 21

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

New Jerusalem, NOT MECCA....!!!!!

Douggg wrote: In addition, the 7 years is found in Revelation 12.   The first half is in Revelation 12:6.    Israel (the woman) is in a wilderness for 1260 days (the same 1260 days given as the testimony time of the two prophets.   She is in the wilderness because she had just be protected from the Gog/Magog destruction, but has yet to accept Jesus as her messiah.     Also, she has unwittingly embraced the Antichrist as her messiah, who shows up in Israel immediately after the destruction of Islam, in the Gog/Magog invasion. The destruction of Islam will allow for Israel to complete the rebuilding of the Temple on the temple mount.    Which 3 1/2 years later will be defiled by the Antichrist. Wrong there again! Revelation 12 is not about Israel it is all about the Church and the universal Prophet and your Gog and Magog bedtime story nobody will be protected from them except the Muslims because in a saying of the Prophet (S) he mentioned to the effect that, Allah (S) will send a breeze and take all the souls of them before that destruction.

In Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The woman is Israel, not the church, because the description above of is the same that Joseph had in a dream of Israel back in Exodus 37:9.   The Church is not mentioned during the time of the Antichrist in Revelation, which the account begins in Revelation 6 with the opening of the seals and ends in Revelation 19 with the Antichrist being cast into the laske of fire.   The Church, the body of believers will be raptured out of the world before the time of the Antichrist, and will be returning with Jesus as his bride.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.  13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.  14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

There will be three separate resurrections, which covers all of humanity.  Everyone takes part in one, and only one, of these three resurrections.

1. The resurrection and rapture of 1thess4:15-18, which takes place in my view, prior to the time of the Antichrist.

2. Then there will be the resurrection of those who became Christians during the time of the Antichrist and who were subsequently martyred.  Revelation 20:4-6.

3. Then there will be a resurrection for the great white throne judgement in Revelation 20:12-15

You have highlighted judged by their works.  

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Do mulsims believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God?   Nope.

So no muslim, depending upon the amount of Truth of the gospel message received outside of the teachings of Islam, will have his name written in the book of life on Judgement day.

Well, what about little babies who die?   And what about people in all parts of the world who had never heard about Jesus?

The little babies and children of course have not reached an age of accountability, so their names will not have been erased from the book of life.

Persons, who had never heard about Jesus, they will be judged according to their works as being righteous or not, so that had they had the opportunity they would have accepted Jesus.    That is not specifically found in the nt, but it a comonly accepted position amongst Christians, based upon God's grace and mercy.

Doug L.  

Edited by Douggg - 19 July 2009 at 7:21am

islamispeace wrote: Douggg wrote: islamispeace wrote: Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God?  Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else. There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God. Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses? Doug L.   There is no official version of Ezekiel.  We have our own knowledge of the end times.  According to those sources, Imam Mahdi will lead the Muslims during the reign of the Antichrist and Jesus will descend in Damascus and kill the Antichrist.  After that, Gog and Magog will be released and spread throughout the world, only to be destroyed and fed on by birds and beasts, similar to the Ezekiel account.  But, Gog and Magog will not be Muslims.

But you said that Ezekiel 38 & 39 are corrupted.   If you don't have the official muslim version uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, then those verses found in the King James are the word of God.    Which means your commentary is an innovation and your opinion is out of step with God, if you don't like what is written in Ezekiel 38 & 39.      

Where are muslims getting their own knowledge of the end times?  What documents? 

Ezekiel 38 & 39 don't say anything about Gog and Magog being released throughout the world.   It is in the mountains and valleys of Israel that Gog's army will be destroyed, Ezekiel 39:5-6, which was written 1000 years before Mohamed.

Do your official muslim word of Allah sources say that Gog/Magog invades Israel?   And that God defends Israel?   If not, it is the muslim source that is corrupted, since Islam has no Official Muslim version of the Bible with only the uncorrupted version of Ezekiel 38 & 39, because Islam says that Allah keeps his book from being corrupted.   So Ezekiel 38 & 39 of the KJV, is the uncorrupted word of God.

From now on, please post the Official Muslim version of the Bible of Allah's perserved word of uncorrupted verses, whenever you make a comment about the KJV version being corrupted - otherwise you are making unfounded innovations.

Doug L.
  

islamispeace wrote: Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God?  Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else. There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.

Could you do a copy and paste of the official Muslim version of Ezekiel 38 & 39 which shows only the uncorrupted verses?

Doug L.  

Douggg: What specific verses in Ezekiel 38 and 39 are you saying is corrupted, not from God? 

Like I said, the obsession that Israel is God's chosen nation, and screw everyone else.

There may be some truth in the Old Testament, the chapters of Ezekiel included.  But, there is also a lot of falsehood.  One of them, I think, is that God favors the Jews, whether they sin or not, over everyone else and treats them differently, even to the point that they are considered superior to everyone else.  This is not becoming of a just and fair God.

Douggg: A big portion of the end times prophecies were sealed until the time of the end.

Well, how convenient!  Don't we need a prophet to interpret these prophecies? 

Douggg: The time of the end is identified by scripture as the period in history when travel and knowledge are increased.   Meaning our generation.

What sort of knowledge?  If you mean spiritual, then actually the opposite happened, because the world is more secular and religious knowledge has decreased. 

It seems to me that if Israel's second birth was so central to the end times, there would have been more information about it in the Bible, and apocalyptic fanatics would have tried to figure out when that would occur before they even thought about trying to figure out the end times.  Its like trying to walk before you crawl.

Douggg: Your soul was joined to Adam's flesh.    That you cannot get around.     

Sure I can, because my flesh is different from his and my sins are my own.

You have a bad habit of ignoring questions when they are posed to you.  I asked about the babies:

What happens when a baby dies in infancy?  How can it be saved?  After all, you say it was born a sinner (such injustice is not becoming of the majesty of God!)?

Douggg: If your soul (which is not physical) resides in your body, then why not sin in the flesh of Adam?

Because my soul is my own, as well!  On the Day of Judgment, when our souls are brought forth, we will not have a pile of "sin" next to us.  Or a pile of "good deeds" next to us, for that matter.  Do you see the difference?

Douggg: It shows that when Adam disobeyed and ate from the tree, sin entered the world and affected everything.   The animal's nature changed as well.

It shows that you have an overactive imagination.  The animals have nothing to do with the whole grand scheme.  They don't have free will.  It makes no sense to include them. 

Douggg: I don't know what affect sin had on them.  I do know this verse...

Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

See, this is the nonsense I am talking about.  These words of Paul seem to suggest that plants too have been tainted by sin!  They can't even move or make a sound!  They just grow from the ground!

Douggg: Sin is analogeous to AIDs.   Being the first man, created without a sin nature, when he ate from the tree and his nature changed, it affected all who were borne after him and of him.

I am getting tired of hearing the same nonsense.  Believe what you will, but don't tell me to believe it as well.

Douggg: 1Corinthians1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Once again, you failed to answer the question!  Instead, you question my "wisdom".  You know what that is called?  Its an ad hominem fallacy.  So, lets see now.  You have used a red herring, a non-sequitur and now an ad hominem.  Looking good, Dougggie! 

Douggg: Using your logic, the crusaders who killed muslims should be considered by muslims as heros, because they made them martyers so that they could be assured of heaven (in Islam thinking).

False analogy!  Boy, you are doing good! 

The difference between your pathetic analogy and that of mine is that the Muslims who were killed had not planned on it from the start.  Jesus apparently did.  And they certainly were not dying for the sins of others!

Douggg: I am sure that the Romans, Pharisses would be considered by Satan and the demons as heros because of their role in crucifying Jesus.

btw, when Jesus entered this earth back in the 1st century and cast out demons, the demons were caught off guard, because they did not know the plan of salvation.    Satan was behind the inspiration to kill Jesus, thinking that would give him victory.   But Satan was blind to God's plan of salvation, which was not understood until after the resurrection.

We are not talking about the demons and Satan.  We are talking about the humans who supposedly killed Jesus.  But if you do want to talk about them, they too can be considered heroes because by doing what they did, they ensured God's plan would succeed, even though they did not know what they were doing.

Anyway, contrary to your assumption that Satan did not know how humans could achieve salvation, the Quran tells us that he did.  It was quite simple.  Believe in Allah!  That's it!

7:16-18
He (Satan) said: "Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way: "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies)."  (Allah) said: "Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee,- Hell will I fill with you all. 

Satan knew that all people had to do was believe in Allah and follow his commandments, so when he was cast out from the presence of Allah, he knew what to do.  He was able to get Adam and Eve to disobey God, which got them booted out from Heaven.  But, he failed to sway them from worshiping Allah, which was the key back into Heaven for them, and for us as well. 

Douggg: 1Corinthians2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

In other words, they were pawns. 

Before I close, I forgot in my last post that you had not answered my points on why the Biblical Jesus was such a racist.  For convenience, I will paste my response to your fallacy here:

What Jesus may have said to the Roman does not change what he may have said to the woman he referred to as a dog just because she was a gentile.  Or was Jesus reneging on his racist attitudes?  Did he reform?

You can't simply ignore these questions and think you will get away with it.  I will keep asking until I get an answer.


Edited by islamispeace - 17 July 2009 at 8:26pm