Why a corrupt Bible is a problem for Islam

Mansoor_ali wrote:  Quran was revealed in a same manner as it was revealed to other Prophets.And the first complete Surah which was revealed to Prophet Muhammad(peace be upon him) was Surah Al-Fatiha.

Muhammad himself described: "Then he took me and squeezed me vehemently and then let me go and repeated the order 'Recite.' 'I cannot recite' said I, and once again he squeezed me and let me 'til I was exhausted. Then he said, 'Recite.' I said, 'I cannot recite.' He squeezed me for a third time and then let me go and said:

Arabic Text: بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
Translation: In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.

Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ بِاسْمِ رَبِّكَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ
Translation: Read: In the name of thy Lord Who createth Quran: 96:1

Arabic Text: خَلَقَ الْإِنسَانَ مِنْ عَلَقٍ
Translation: Createth man from a clot. Quran: 96:2

Arabic Text: اقْرَأْ وَرَبُّكَ الْأَكْرَمُ
Translation: Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Quran: 96:3

Arabic Text: الَّذِي عَلَّمَ بِالْقَلَمِ
Translation: Who teacheth by the pen, Quran: 96:4

Arabic Text: عَلَّمَ الْإِنسَانَ مَا لَمْ يَعْلَمْ
Translation: Teacheth man that which he knew not. Quran: 96:5

Edited by JOUBERAR - 04 April 2010 at 11:30pm

Assalamu laikum,


Douggg ,


Yes everything you said just now..

That,s what im referring to it,s in the bible.

but the mountainous region that was referred to is whats called today the ( golan heights)

Israels military advantage point will be given to them.

because of the river that runs through it from the sea of gallilea Israel will determine that that would seperate the two of them Palestine / israel

then comes a great drought that will empty the sea river there.


and tanks from all over the middle east will come Down on Them ,

at once Israel will be taken between now and the year 2048 ( via the parable of the fig tree time~line)

And i really dont think it will take that long

everything that Israels doing now thats mean is only God giving them enough rope to Hang Themselves.

Ive seen your math on the parable of the Fig tree we Should talk about that sometime, on a later date.

                  SWORD OF ALLAH ,



Edited by swordofallah - 02 April 2010 at 8:12am

Apollos said =

You have employed a lot of non sequiturs in your statements but I offer two responses to your post:

1.      It is obvious that you do not know what Christians believe about Jesus� ontology or else you would have known that Jesus having a human nature, praying to God, etc. is part of what we believe. When you � or someone who told you about Christians � mischaracterizes our beliefs like this, it doesn�t do anyone any good. Before you challenge someone else to take an �honest look� at the Quran, you might want to take an honest look at the Bible.

   2. You assume that I have never read the Quran with an open mind. In fact I did this over thirty years ago and reached the opposite conclusion than you have. I won�t offend you by criticizing it but I at least give it the benefit of the doubt that there may be ways a believer of the Quran could reconcile the many inconsistencies. You obviously don�t do this with the Bible. And when you recommend not paying attention to the words of men, how is it that you base your service to God on � not the Quran but other writings by men, who say that you should believe and do what they say Mohammed said. Even if Mohammed was a prophet, it does not follow that the Hadith should be followed. So you do in fact want me to pay attention to what men say � beyond the Quran.

      Apollos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SWORDOFALLAH RESPONDED:



1st off APOLLOS

I USED NO non sequiturs IN MY REPLY TO YOU.

AND THE FACT THAT YOU SAY I DID IS A SHIELD TO IGNORE ANYTHING I HAVE TO SAY !

I NOTICED YOU POINTED OUT NOTHING SPECIFIC AT ALL THOUGH. !

2ND YOU USED THE WORD (EMPLOY) THERE,S NO WAGE BEING PAID HERE,

A MUCH BETTER WORD WOULD HAVE BEEN THE WORD IMPLEMENTED

NEXT YOU SAID IT,S OBVIOUS I DONT KNOW WHAT CHRISTIANS BELEIVE, THAT MY FRIEND WASNT THE SUBJECT MATTER !

AND IT,S AN IGNORANT STATEMENT SO QUICKLY IN THE DISCUSSION. PARDON ME FOR BEING BLUNT,

I SAID WHEN JESUS WENT INTO THE DESERT TO PRAY AND WAS TEMPTED BY THE DEVIL WHO DID HE PRAY TO HIMSELF ?

THE POINT THAT BY PASSED YOU LIKE A ROCKET WAS HOW CAN JESUS BE GOD WHEN HE,S PRAYING TO HIM ?????

AND THAT WAS ASKING YOU A QUESTION !

NOT~MISCHARECTERIZING YOUR BELIEFS AS YOU BOLDLY STATED.

AND FOR YOUR INFO I HAVE ALREADY READ THE BIBLE,

AND FOR YOU TO TELL ME TO READ THE BIBLE 1ST BEFORE ME ASKING YOU TO READ THE QURAN IS YOUR PEROGATIVE.

HOWEVER I KNOW YOU DIDNT READ THE QURAN = I KNOW THIS !

YOU LOVE CHANGING SUBJECT MATTER DONT YOU I TOLD YOU TO TRY AND READ THE QURAN.

THEN YOU SAID I WANT YOU TO READ THE HADITH WHICH ONE DID I MENTION TO YOU I WONDER WAS IT THE SUNNI OR SHIA
HHHHMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ????????

I WOULD NOT DESCRIBE TOOLS OF UNDERSTANDING THAT COMPLIMENT THE QURAN TO SOMEONE AT YOUR APTITUDE LEVEL.

IT WOULD BE LIKE HANDING A DICTIONARY TO SOMEONE WHO DIDNT KNOW THERE A B C ,s

AMAZING HOW A TONGUE IS LIKE A TWO EDGED SWORD ISNT IT .

YOU CANT DAZZLE ME WITH BRILLIANCE OR BAFFLE ME WITH BOLOGNA , ~~~~~~ REMEMBER THAT ABOUT ME, !!

AND YOU CANT STICK TO THE SUBJECT MATTER BECAUSE YOUR WORDS ARE FORMED ON RYTHMIC INFERENCES BASED ON YOUR ASSUMPTIONS & PSYCHIC ABILITY.

ENGLISH IS MY LANGUAGE,

AND YOU ARE OUTCLASSED TRYING TO GET INTO THE RING WITH ME BUT BY ALL MEANS ANYTIME. !


NEW FROM APOLLOS:


SOA,



I and other followers of Jesus have addressed your �questions� many times. To save you time I will summarize here.



It is you who have made what Christians believe the subject matter by creating a straw man. You stated that Jesus prayed to God, as if this is at odds with what Christians believe. You have further clarified your assertion above with the argument that Jesus would be praying to himself � something that is nonsensical. If Christians believed that God had only one center of consciousness, your objection would have merit. Of course we don�t believe this so your objection is irrelevant. (If the one God has more than one center of consciousness, one of those centers of consciousness can communicate with the other. That is what we believe. It doesn�t matter if you understand or accept this belief � it is our belief and since you have tried to characterize what we believe differently I am right in saying you don�t know what Christians believe).



Imagine your reaction if I said: Muslims commit shirk by attempting to partner Mohammed with God. If I impose my view on your statements (as you have done with Christian statements) I would look at your central belief statement and find it blasphemous. (�There is no God but Allah and that Mohammad is His Messenger.�) Jews and Christians so venerate the name and place of God that we would never combine the name of a mere man with the all powerful and holy God. The only time the Bible makes a similar creedal statement is when that human is the Messiah and of course we do not believe the Messiah is a mere human. But I realize that Muslims don�t share this view so it would be a mischaracterization of what Muslims believe to assert this claim. The central Muslim creed is blasphemous to me but I should not accuse Muslims of intentionally blaspheming God.



Since you know that I have never read the Quran, and I know I have, one of us is delusional. I don�t see any point in trying to have a dialogue with a delusional person, do you?



BTW � I am sure it is as you say - that I am out of your league against your mental skills and I am sure you are an expert with English, so I am going to run away scared. You might want to tune that English up though as I see you repeatedly start sentences with �And�, put a period before exclamation marks, etc. I�m told these are grammatical mistakes.



Apollos


Edited by Apollos - 26 March 2010 at 5:43pm

To Apollos,

1ST OFF APOLLOS, YOU SAID YOU AND OTHER FOLLOWERS OF JESUS HAVE ADDRESSED MY QUESTIONS MANY TIME,S
YOUR (Delusional)!! THIS IS THE 2ND TIME I HAVE WRITTEN IN RESPONCE TO WHAT YOU HAVE SAID & I HAVE SO FAR NOT SPOKEN TO ANOTHER SO CALLED CHRISTIAN HERE.

YOU FURTHER CARRIED ON TO SAY TO SAVE ME TIME YOU WOULD SUMMARIZE HERE.

WHEN IN ALL ACTUALITY YOU RAN TO PUT WORD,S IN MY MOUTH
WHEN IN FACT YOU MAKE NO SENSE !

YOU SAID = It is you who have made what Christians believe the subject matter by creating a straw man.

CAN I PLEASE HAVE A LIST OF NAMES OF THESE CHRISTIANS YOU REFER TOO,?

AS I HAVE MADE THEM BELIEVE THE SUBJECT MATTER AS YOU SO CLAIM ?

AND FOR YOUR INFORMATION I WOULD NEVER CALL OR CATEGORIZE JESUS AS A STRAW MAN. !

YOU SAID = (If the one God has more than one center of consciousness, one of those centers of consciousness can communicate with the other.

I BELIEVE THE KEY WORD HERE IS ( IF ) IN THE ABOVE STATEMENT.

MY TAKE ON IT IS GOD CREATED EVERYTHING AND DIDNT ASK ANYONE FOR DIRECTIONS NOR DID HE NEED ANYONE,S HELP .

AND HE DOSENT NEED MULTIPLE CONSCIOUSNESS,S EITHER.

HE WILL SEND THE HOLY SPIRIT AS YOU CALL IT DOWN ON WHOM HE WILL , IT WILL COME AND DEPART, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE WHEN IT CAME TO JESUS IT DID NOT DEPART.

AND IF THE HOLY SPIRIT COMES DOWN UPON ME IT DOSENT MEAN I AM GOD WHILE IT IS WITH ME. !

AND I KNOW WELL WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE HOWEVER THEY WOULDNT AGREE WITH YOUR CHARACTERIZATION OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE.

AS YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN PAGE AND IT IS ONE SPECIAL ONE INDEED.!

YOU SAID YOU DONT BELIEVE THE MESSIAH WAS HUMAN.
YOUR WRONG HE WAS !

REMEMBER HOW WHEN THE JEWS WHIPPED HIM AND TORTURED HIM DID HE NOT BLEED?

LOOK AT THE FOLLOWING 3 VERSES OF THE BIBLE I DID OBVIOUSLY YOU PICK THE 3RD.

Matt. 27:46,50 (see also Mark 15:34): "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?' that is to say, 'My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?' ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, 'Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:' and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, 'It is finished:' and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

YOU SAID =You might want to tune that English up though as I see you repeatedly start sentences with �And�, put a period before exclamation marks, etc. I�m told these are grammatical mistakes.

I BET SOMEONE DID TELL YOU, AS TO HAVE THE CAPACITY TO RECOGNIZE THIS YOURSELF WOULD TAKE AN EDUCATION.

AND THE PERSON WHO RECOGNIZED THESE FOR YOU WAS CORRECT THEY ARE GRAMMAR MISTAKES.

THAT HOWEVER WAS NOT WHAT I WAS REFERRING TO WHEN I SAID ENGLISH WAS MY LANGUAGE.

IT,S NOT THAT YOUR WRONG APOLLOS IT,S JUST YOU HAVENT BEEN RIGHT YET.!

AND FOR THE SAKE OF MERCY I AM GOING TO STOP REPLYING TO THE INSANITY,

AS I AM HAVING A BATTLE OF WIT,S WITH AN UNARMED OPPONENT

AND IN ALL FAIRNESS THE DJINN ARE SPEAKING THROUGH YOU.
YOU VERY SERIOUSLY NEED AN EXORCISM DONE. !
                             Salam Alekum
                           THE SWORD OF ALLAH

To Brother SwordofAllah,

First of all, welcome to the forum and great response to Apollos!  Second, let me just tell you what you can expect from Apollos.  He will no doubt accuse you of being subjective or using fallacies, but his own responses will be littered with subjectivity and fallacies, which of course, he will not admit.  He will play the "I am an objective person" card and accuse you of not providing any objective evidence (when in fact you may), while also not providing any objective evidence for his own beliefs.  Since you are discussing what the Bible says, you may no doubt come across his strange argument of "hidden meanings and allegories" but when you ask him to show examples or evidence, his answer will "well, Jesus said it." 

Anyway, I thought I should impart on you the tactics of Apollos.  This one will provide you with some nice entertainment.