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H3OO View Drop Down
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Points: 215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H3OO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 July 2008 at 10:39pm
ill discuss this in context of whether u r a
nonbeliever or a kafir, since u are not a Muslim so accord to my faith u don't qualify as a believer;

so it depends upon whats inside ur heart that ofcourse only God knows.
if u, in ur heart know  that Hazrat (pbuh) was a true massenger of GOD but yet u deny it intentionally then  ofcourse u for me are  a Kafir.

but if  there are some doubts in ur heart due lack of info or some other true reasons, and there is no dishonesty on ur part, then i do believe u are a  nonbeliever (who i believe will also go to heaven)and not a kafir.

what we study is that before GOd decided to send his prophet, the state of humans was in very bad state. they did every bad thing that couldve possibly be done, so inorder to get them back on track. GOD decided to send his prophets. so the purpose of prophets was to give the mankind the proper right guidance and get them out of dark into light.

so if someone without believing in prophet in the manner as i above stated follows all his believing and lives a very pure life and does all that what prophets taught us but doesnt honestly believe due lack of info about the truthness of the prophet, how can such a person be a kafir, (he isnt intentionally rejecting the prophet neither he is doing any sinful acts). and remember the purpose of prophet is being fulfilled.

but unfortunately todays socalled Muslims islam has just been limited to the acceptance or rejection of the prophet rather than  being the followance of prophet which is the major thing. if some one accepts PBUH he'll go to heaven and if someone rejects he'll go to hell, the story ends here for them.
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H3OO View Drop Down
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Points: 215 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote H3OO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 July 2008 at 12:18am
and as to ur saying that isnt believing in GOD enough. i would say that its the GOD who send all these prophets and therefore its his order to accept all the the prophets unless u are not honestly sure about the truthness of anyone of them (otherwise why would he send them, its not that difficult to understand) and

so if u believe in GOD, u have to believe in all prophets he send and if u reject even one them means that u are rejecting GODs words/orders and hence the GOD so even if one accepts God but reject any of his prophets intentionally (knowing in heart that he a true massenger of GOD)then i do think ur acceptance of  God are just  words and nothing from the inside.

it simple when u believe in God, u believe in everything he says and follow his orders otherwise acceptance/believing are mere words.


Edited by H3OO - 13 July 2008 at 12:37am
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Hayfa - Consider that no man is better then another- then it is very likely that the people in charge of the Quran have also failed.
 
H3OO - What if you know that the prophet was from GOD but his message has been distorted because of wrong translations and purposely destroyed variations of writings? What if the message is opposite from what history has told us.
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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minuteman View Drop Down
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 Momin: A believer. Who believes :
 
 In Allah.
 In all the angels of God (Allah).
 In all the books of God (Allah)
 In all the messengers of Allah.
 In the accountability of last day...
 
 Muslim: The one who believes:
 
 In all of the above. That means he must be a Momin.
 In prayer 5 times a dayn (Salaat)
 In paying poor tax. (Zakaat)
 In fasting during month of Ramadhan.
 In Hajj, at least once in life, if situation allows.
 A Muslim is a practicing active Momin.
 
 Munafiq: The one who believes:
 
 In some of the above and declares that he is a momin,
 But he does not really believe in Islam. He is an enemy sitting within Muslims. He is not an open enemy but works undercover most of the time.
 
 Kafir:  The one who does not believe in Islam. He denies Islam, rejects islam, opposes Islam. He is an enemy who is outside the fold of Islam. He opposes Islam with money and Might. He says that islam is a false religion. He is not a peaceful person.
 
 He is not a simple peaceful disbeliever. He is an active hostile disbeliever. He is the one whom the message of Islam has been given in a good way with love. But he rejects the message and gets ready to oppose the message. He does not allow the message of Islam to be propagated.
 
 That seems to be a Kaafir. But please follow your own rules by the study of the Quran.
 


Edited by minuteman - 13 July 2008 at 7:21am
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myahya View Drop Down
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Good answers, I agree. Specially the one from H3OO digs deeper.
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H3OO View Drop Down
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[QUOTE=minuteman]
 
 Momin: A believer. Who believes :
 
 In Allah.
 In all the angels of God (Allah).
 In all the books of God (Allah)
 In all the messengers of Allah.
 In the accountability of last day...

[QUOTE]

well in my opinion
i do believe that a nonbeliever can be a momin too.
for me  a momin is the one who performs good deeds which has not much to do with acceptance of prophethood or might do but to a little extent which i'll discuss later

performance of good deeds has got to do more with followance of prophethood and not their acceptance (people accept their prophets but dont follow them). and by followance i mean live ur life the way prophets taught us.

like
to be honest
not to earn through illegal/haram means
respect ur parents and other elders
treat ur younger ones with good manners
help others specially the poor
abstain from adultery/ alcohol/ womanizing & other such crimes
not to steal or harm/deceive others
respect others faith
dont create mischief on earth
ofocourse this list goes on but these are the ones that we encounter in our daily lives

now to be a good person what more is required, if anyone can tell, im sure not much.

and i also dont believe that there will be any person in this world that does all the above good things and also reject any prophet intentionally (he in his heart know that they are right/true but still deliberately reject them). i really dont believe.

but there are many  (im sure) who might be a lot better in the above
mentioned things as compared to muslims but might not be the believer of Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh)


but rejection of prophet (pbuh) might not be intentional/delibrate. as i stated before they honestly might know the truth ness of prophet(pbuh) due to lack of info or some other true reasons and ofcourse GOD
knows what is in their hearts.

so accord to this last statement one can say  disbeliever (who is disbeliever in the way i described above) can be a momin too.

and ofcourse if a disbeliever intentionally denys prophethood of Hazrat Muhammed(pbuh) then he is kafir

Edited by H3OO - 13 July 2008 at 8:44pm
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Originally posted by myahya myahya wrote:

Good answers, I agree. Specially the one from H3OO digs deeper.
 
 Yes, I agree with you about H300.  I am sorry, I could not reply tp one of your earlier posts. I will do soon, Insha Allah.
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H3OO View Drop Down
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Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

Hayfa - Consider that no man is better then another- then it is very likely that the people in charge of the Quran have also failed.
 
H3OO - What if you know that the prophet was from GOD but his message has been distorted because of wrong translations and purposely destroyed variations of writings? What if the message is opposite from what history has told us.


if u know that a prophet is a true one (as u say in ur question that "u know that prohet was from GOD") then rest goes out of the equation.thats most important and also the most difficult thing to know that whether a prophet is true or not and once  u get to know this fact that a prophet is a true one, then u surely would know an other thing too that he can never say a wrong thing bcz what he says is what GOD says.

and we all know GOD has given human the ability to think and to think logically, ability to observe, to find solutions. all this advancement that we see today wouldnt be possible had we got no brains, its such a powerful thing and so when the major obstacle (of knowing the truthness pf prophet) has been cleared, the passage of knowing the true message of prophet should not be that difficult.

GOD has himself said that he'll never do anything which is against human logic. so think logically and u'll never find anything in prophets messages that is against logic that our brains does not approve of.

and thats why more and more people are starting to reject that jesus (as) was taken to the skies which is totally against ones logic. surley humans cant fly. so people have started to think logically atlast.


i hope i got ur question right and its just my opinion in the end.

but i'll like to add 1 more thing that if u by ur question mean that due to distortion of the prophets messages, ur not sure about the truthness of the prophet then i have answered this already in my other 2 posts in this thread




Edited by H3OO - 14 July 2008 at 12:08am
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