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minuteman 
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Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642 |
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 Posted: 15 July 2008 at 10:13pm |
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To Seeks first:
Abu Talib was a good man. He could not recite the Kalimah because there was too much persecution of the Momineen and they were migrating. He was not sure of the ultimate result of the struggle. Moreover, he had clos elonks with the polytheists. When Abu Talib was about to die, the Prophet came to him and requested that uncle should become a believer even by reciting the Kalimah in the ear of the prophet.
But Abu Jehl was sitting there close to Abu Talib. And Abu Talib could not utter a word of belief. Too bad and so sad.
Now about H300:
Please understand that what you have written is very good. It needs to be modified slightly. Belief is different to deeds. Belief is sort of intention. Belief and deeds are two different things and they are mentioned separately alongside one another. It is mentioned in Quran (2:82) And those who believed and performed befitting deeds they are the companions (dwellers) of paradise. They will live therein for a very long time.
In the above verse, the belief is mentioned separate from the deeds. Of course, any one who claims to be a believer but does not do any good thing, his belief is false. It may be likened to a tree which was planted but never watered until it was dried up and became dead.
By doing good deeds, a believers puts a stamp on his beliefs.
Semar has rightly explained the Eeman (belief) that is to accept that there is no God but Allah, and to believe in all His angels and all his book and all his messengers... That is belief. that is the beginning. By that a person comes into the fold of Islam. Then he has to prove his belief by performing certain obligatory prayers. He/she has to act on the teachings of the Quran and the way the prophet explained them practically (Sunnah).
All the above was for H300 (continued). We have been told that there are six basis of eeman. There are five pillars of Islam. Momin is a mere believer. He admits certain truth. Then his journey begins to the right path. Please remember that it is necessary to be a believer (Momin) in order to be a Muslim. And to be a believer is not anything minor or easy. It requires a lot of effort to accept the truth.
Any christian or Jew could also be a believer in God in his own way. He may still be a polytheist. But then his belief will not be useful to him. I feel that only an atheist would be a non-believer. Our present day meaning of the believer (Momin) is the one who believes in the prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s. That is a must. Edited by minuteman - 15 July 2008 at 10:20pm |
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seekshidayath
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Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
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Posted: 15 July 2008 at 7:20pm |
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As'Salamu Alaikum,
H300, hope you keep contributing here, by sharing with us your knowledge, It was nice reading you. Your posts are good but they shall be the best and more effective when are supported by ayah from the Quran and sunnah. Hope you shall also add up the verses if needed , and support your opinions.
Regarding this sentnce of yours, i contradict a bit,
" and i also dont believe that there will be any person in this world that does all the above good things and also reject any prophet intentionally (he in his heart know that they are right/true but still deliberately reject them). i really dont believe."
I know such persons personally, who do such good things and also reject Prophet deliberately. But to cite an example toyou, what do you say about., Prophet 's uncle - Abu Talib. He knew very well that his nephew was a chosen messenger _-----,
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Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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semar
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Male Islam Joined: 11 March 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1830 |
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Posted: 13 July 2008 at 11:35pm |
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Salam/Peace
Based on the hadith below the definition of believer (in Islam) is: "to believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the meeting with Him, and to believe in the Resurrection."
Based on the hadith, to be "perfect believer" we have to do "Iman (in your heart)"; "Islam (in your action)" and "Ihsan (perfection/ultimate goal on how we worship (obeying/doing Allah/God's commands)) ".
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[[From Bukhari]] 6.300: Narrated Abu Huraira: One day while Allah's Apostle was sitting with the people, a man came to him walking and said, "O Allah's Apostle. What is Belief (Iman)?" The Prophet said, "Belief is to believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the meeting with Him, and to believe in the Resurrection." The man asked, "O Allah's Apostle What is Islam?" The Prophet replied, "Islam is to worship Allah and not worship anything besides Him, to offer prayers perfectly, to pay the (compulsory) charity i.e. Zakat and to fast the month of Ramadan." The man again asked, "O Allah's Apostle What is Ihsan (i.e. perfection or Benevolence)?" The Prophet said, "Ihsan is to worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you do not achieve this state of devotion, then (take it for granted that) Allah sees you." The man further asked, "O Allah's Apostle When will the Hour be established?" The Prophet replied, "The one who is asked about it does not know more than the questioner does, but I will describe to you its portents. When the lady slave gives birth to her mistress, that will be of its portents; when the bare-footed naked people become the chiefs of the people, that will be of its portents. The Hour is one of five things which nobody knows except Allah. Verily, the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). He sends down the rain, and knows that which is in the wombs." (31.34) Then the man left. The Prophet said, "Call him back to me." They went to call him back but could not see him. The Prophet said, "That was Gabriel who came to teach the people their religion." (See Hadith No. 47 Vol 1) [[
[[From Muslim]] @Book 1, Number 0004: Abu Huraira reported: One day the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appeared before the public that a man came to him and said: Prophet of Allah, (tell me) what is Iman. Upon this he (the Holy Prophet) replied: That you affirm your faith in Allah, His angels, His Books, His meeting, His Messengers and that you affirm your faith in the Resurrection hereafter. He (again) said: Messenger of Allah, (tell me) what does al-Islam signify. He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Al- Islam signifies that you worship Allah and do not associate anything with Him and you establish obligatory prayer and you pay the obligatory poor-rate (Zakat) and you observe the fast of Ramadan. He (the inquirer) again said: Messenger of Allah, what does al-Ihsan imply? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: That you worship Allah as if you are seeing Him, and in case you fail to see Him, then observe prayer (with this idea in your mind) that (at least) He is seeing you. He (the inquirer ) again said: Messenger of Allah, when would there be the hour (of Doom)? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: The one who is asked about it is no better informed than the inquirer. I, however, narrate some of its signs (and these are): when the slave-girl will give birth to he master, when the naked, barefooted would become the chiefs of the people - these are some of the signs of (Doom). (Moreover) when the shepherds of the black (camels) would exult themselves in buildings, this is one of the signs of (Doom). (Doom) is one of the five (happenings wrapped in the unseen) which no one knows but Allah. Then he (the Messenger of Allah) recited (the verse):" Verily Allah! with Him alone is the knowledge of the hour and He it is Who sends (down the rain) and knows that which is in the wombs and no person knows whatsoever he shall earn tomorrow, and a person knows not in whatsoever land he shall die. Verily Allah is Knowing, Aware. He (the narrator, Abu Huraira) said: Then the person turned back and went away. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Bring that man back to me. They (the Companions of the Holy Prophet present there) went to bring him back, but they saw nothing there. Upon this the Messenger of Allah remarked: he was Gabriel, who came to teach the people their religion. [[ Edited by semar - 14 July 2008 at 5:21pm |
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Salam/Peace,
Semar "We are people who do not eat until we are hungry and do not eat to our fill." (Prophet Muhammad PBUH) "1/3 of your stomach for food, 1/3 for water, 1/3 for air" |
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H3OO
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Joined: 11 July 2008 Location: Switzerland Status: Offline Points: 215 |
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Posted: 13 July 2008 at 11:29pm |
if u know that a prophet is a true one (as u say in ur question that "u know that prohet was from GOD") then rest goes out of the equation.thats most important and also the most difficult thing to know that whether a prophet is true or not and once u get to know this fact that a prophet is a true one, then u surely would know an other thing too that he can never say a wrong thing bcz what he says is what GOD says. and we all know GOD has given human the ability to think and to think logically, ability to observe, to find solutions. all this advancement that we see today wouldnt be possible had we got no brains, its such a powerful thing and so when the major obstacle (of knowing the truthness pf prophet) has been cleared, the passage of knowing the true message of prophet should not be that difficult. GOD has himself said that he'll never do anything which is against human logic. so think logically and u'll never find anything in prophets messages that is against logic that our brains does not approve of. and thats why more and more people are starting to reject that jesus (as) was taken to the skies which is totally against ones logic. surley humans cant fly. so people have started to think logically atlast. i hope i got ur question right and its just my opinion in the end. but i'll like to add 1 more thing that if u by ur question mean that due to distortion of the prophets messages, ur not sure about the truthness of the prophet then i have answered this already in my other 2 posts in this thread Edited by H3OO - 14 July 2008 at 12:08am |
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minuteman
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Posted: 13 July 2008 at 9:43pm |
Yes, I agree with you about H300. I am sorry, I could not reply tp one of your earlier posts. I will do soon, Insha Allah.
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H3OO
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Posted: 13 July 2008 at 10:30am |
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[QUOTE=minuteman]
Momin: A believer. Who believes :
In Allah.
In all the angels of God (Allah).
In all the books of God (Allah)
In all the messengers of Allah.
In the accountability of last day...
[QUOTE]well in my opinion i do believe that a nonbeliever can be a momin too. for me a momin is the one who performs good deeds which has not much to do with acceptance of prophethood or might do but to a little extent which i'll discuss later performance of good deeds has got to do more with followance of prophethood and not their acceptance (people accept their prophets but dont follow them). and by followance i mean live ur life the way prophets taught us. like to be honest not to earn through illegal/haram means respect ur parents and other elders treat ur younger ones with good manners help others specially the poor abstain from adultery/ alcohol/ womanizing & other such crimes not to steal or harm/deceive others respect others faith dont create mischief on earth ofocourse this list goes on but these are the ones that we encounter in our daily lives now to be a good person what more is required, if anyone can tell, im sure not much. and i also dont believe that there will be any person in this world that does all the above good things and also reject any prophet intentionally (he in his heart know that they are right/true but still deliberately reject them). i really dont believe. but there are many (im sure) who might be a lot better in the above mentioned things as compared to muslims but might not be the believer of Hazrat Muhammed (pbuh) but rejection of prophet (pbuh) might not be intentional/delibrate. as i stated before they honestly might know the truth ness of prophet(pbuh) due to lack of info or some other true reasons and ofcourse GOD knows what is in their hearts. so accord to this last statement one can say disbeliever (who is disbeliever in the way i described above) can be a momin too. and ofcourse if a disbeliever intentionally denys prophethood of Hazrat Muhammed(pbuh) then he is kafir Edited by H3OO - 13 July 2008 at 8:44pm |
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myahya
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Posted: 13 July 2008 at 8:09am |
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Good answers, I agree. Specially the one from H3OO digs deeper.
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minuteman
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Posted: 13 July 2008 at 7:17am |
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Momin: A believer. Who believes :
In Allah.
In all the angels of God (Allah).
In all the books of God (Allah)
In all the messengers of Allah.
In the accountability of last day...
Muslim: The one who believes:
In all of the above. That means he must be a Momin.
In prayer 5 times a dayn (Salaat)
In paying poor tax. (Zakaat)
In fasting during month of Ramadhan.
In Hajj, at least once in life, if situation allows.
A Muslim is a practicing active Momin.
Munafiq: The one who believes:
In some of the above and declares that he is a momin,
But he does not really believe in Islam. He is an enemy sitting within Muslims. He is not an open enemy but works undercover most of the time.
Kafir: The one who does not believe in Islam. He denies Islam, rejects islam, opposes Islam. He is an enemy who is outside the fold of Islam. He opposes Islam with money and Might. He says that islam is a false religion. He is not a peaceful person.
He is not a simple peaceful disbeliever. He is an active hostile disbeliever. He is the one whom the message of Islam has been given in a good way with love. But he rejects the message and gets ready to oppose the message. He does not allow the message of Islam to be propagated.
That seems to be a Kaafir. But please follow your own rules by the study of the Quran.
Edited by minuteman - 13 July 2008 at 7:21am |
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believer wrote: