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Please explain this ayat and hadith to me

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aiqbal View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 July 2008 at 5:08pm
Dear Brothers and Sisters, Assalam walaikum. 
 
I have come to you with a question that is very worrysome for me.  Please allow me to explain as follows:
 
The following is an ayat from Surah-e-Araf (7.179):
Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell: They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided: for they are heedless (of warning).
 
This ayat is furthur cemented by the following  hadith from Sahih-al-Bukhari (book of Beginning of Creation):
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mus'ud: Allah's Apostle, the true and truly inspired said, "(The matter of the Creation of) a human being is put together in the womb of the mother in forty days, and then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period, and then a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then Allah sends an angel who is ordered to write four things. He is ordered to write down his (i.e. the new creature's) deeds, his livelihood, his (date of) death, and whether he will be blessed or wretched (in religion). Then the soul is breathed into him. So, a man amongst you may do (good deeds till there is only a cubit between him and Paradise and then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of the (Hell) Fire. And similarly a man amongst you may do (evil) deeds till there is only a cubit between him and the (Hell) Fire, and then what has been written for him decides his behavior, and he starts doing deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise."  
 
This is a completely authentic hadith especially since the Holy Quran says essentially the same thing as you can see.  No doubt, this is true, it is a fact.  But it raises a worrysome question in my mind.  The question is that no man/woman can get salvation at all?  Even if they are doing good deeds and are living a pious life, they will automatically end up living a live of sin because his deeds have been pre-written even before he or she was born? 
 
Can someone with more knowledge and insight please explain to me what is Allah (swt) and Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) are trying to say?  What is the real message?  And how do I know what are my pre-written deeds (I can only pray that they are good ones)? 
 
Is there a scholar or a sheikh around who can answer this for me please?  I look forward to enlightening responses since, honestly, this ayat and hadith have scared me and shaken me down to my roots.
 
Jazakallah. :-)
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2008 at 3:19am
 
 This verse or Hadith may be about destiny i.e. pre-ordination or free will. In Urdu it is called Qismat. May I inform you that the prophet s.a.w.s. had forbidden to discuss this subject. There is no solution. Religious people and logicians and other philosophers all have been discussing it. But there is no result. Some people say that every man's fate is fully written in advance. The other people (and verses of the Quran) say that every one has his destiny in his own hands.
 
 And why will Allah punish any one for which he had no choice to avoid.
 
 So you please forget this troublesome subject and get on with some practical good work. That is Love and prayer and do good to all people. Be peaceful. Do not ever hurt or wound any one.
 
The verse is correct. It is telling that many people will be heading for hell. You cannot deny that. And you do not know whether you will be one of them. So forget it. Do not be un-necessarily worried. Hell is also meant for purification. After spending their time in hell, the enemy type disbelievers (The Kafirs) will eventually be taken out of hell and sent to Jannat.
 
 There will be a time when there will be no one left in the hell and the morning breeze will rattle (or shake) the doors of empty hell. (An impotant Hadith).
 
 The verse is right and so is the Hadith (I hope). It is telling something about creation of body and soul. But the additional part about the fate and future deeds of the person is not well understood. We should remember that we are free to decide and do something or reject something. We must make good use of that facility (faculty) and we will be asked about our deeds. There is no running away from that.  We will not be aksed about  the riddle of destiny on the day of judgement, whether we had a free hand or our hands were tied up. 
 If Allah knows what we are going to do today and tomorrow and day after, it is none of our business to sit idle, to waste away our time in idleness or vain talks. That will not help us at all. 
 
 The question relates to fate and no one has been able to solve the riddle of fate i.e. pre-destination. Thanks. But excuse me for any shortcomings.


Edited by minuteman - 08 July 2008 at 3:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 July 2008 at 11:21pm
As'Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu,
 
Welcome to our boards of discussions brother aiqbal. Your question is very intresting and common as well. Most of us do get such doubts.
 
As you asked scholarly opinion, here is its commentary am pasting from Ibn Kathir. Before going into that, let me remind you that the verses being discussed beofre this ayah, is of disbeliever. And the same continues. Khayr, here is its tafseer
 
179. And surely, We have created many of the Jinn and mankind for Hell. They have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not (the truth). They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones.
 
Allah said, (And surely, We have created for Hell) We made a share in the Fire for

(many of the Jinn and mankind) We prepared them for it by their performance of the deeds of its people. When Allah intended to create the creation, He knew what their work will be before they existed. He wrote all this in a Book, kept with Him, fifty thousand years before He created the heavens and earth. Muslim recorded that `Abdullah bin `Amr narrated that the Messenger of Allah said,
 
(Verily, Allah decided the destination and due measurement of the creation fifty thousand years before He created the heavens and earth, and His Throne was over the water.) There are many Hadiths on this subject, and certainly, the matter of Al-Qadar is of utmost importance, yet this is not where we should discuss it. Allah said,
 
(They have hearts wherewith they understand not, and they have eyes wherewith they see not, and they have ears wherewith they hear not.) meaning, they do not benefit from these senses that Allah made for them as a means of gaining guidance. Similarly, Allah said,
 
(And We had assigned them the (faculties of) hearing, seeing, and hearts; but their hearing, seeing, and their hearts availed them nothing since they used to deny the Ayat.) 46:26. Allah also said about the hypocrites,
((They are) deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not (to the right path)) ﴿2:18﴾, and about the disbelievers,
 
(They are) deaf, dumb and blind. So they do not understand.) 2:171﴾ However, they are not deaf, dumb or blind, except relation to the guidance. Allah said;
 
(Had Allah known of any good in them, He would indeed have made them listen; and even if He had made them listen, they would but have turned away with aversion (to the truth).) ﴿8:23
 
(Verily, it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts which are in the breasts that grow blind.) ﴿22:46﴾, and,
 
(And whosoever turns away blindly from the remembrance of the Most Gracious (Allah), We appoint for him Shaytan to be an intimate companion to him. And verily, they hinder them from the path, but they think that they are guided aright!)43:36-37, Allah's statement,

(They are like cattle), means, those who neither hear the truth, nor understand it, nor see the guidance, are just like grazing cattle that do not benefit from these senses, except for what sustains their life in this world. Allah said in a similar Ayah,
 
(And the example of those who disbelieve is as that of one who shouts to those who hear nothing but calls and cries.) 2:171﴾ meaning, their example, when they are called to the faith, is the example of cattle that hear only the voice of their shepherd, but cannot understand what he is saying. Allah further described them
 
(nay even more astray), than cattle, because cattle still respond to the call of their shepherd, even though they do not understand what he is saying. As for the people described here, they are unlike cattle, which fulfill the purpose and service they were created for. The disbeliever was created to worship Allah alone in Tawhid, but he disbelieved in Allah and associated others in His worship. Therefore, those people who obey Allah are more honorable than some angels, while cattle are better than those who disbelieve in Him. So Allah said;
 
(They are like cattle, nay even more astray; those! They are the heedless ones.)
That was the commentary. Hope you now got it, that it described disbelievers. Regarding destiny, just read that which is highlighted in bold. Allah swt is the All-Knower. He knows what are we going to do. And that was writted. Yes, few aspects are being  ordained by Allah swt, like regarding our birth, death etc. But remember we are given free will and so are accountable for it. Anyways, let us concentrate on other important things like how to agree Allah swt with our ways by following Qur'an and sunnah.
 
Minuteman, kindly read these verses
 
" Verily, the criminals will be in the torment of Hell to abide therein forever. (That) will not be lightened for them, and they will be plunged into destruction with deep regrets, sorrows and in despair therein. "
 
" And they will cry (to the keeper of Hell): "O Malik! Let your Lord make an end of us.'' He will say: "Verily, you shall abide forever.'' (43:77"
 
" And on the Day when He will gather them together (and say): "O you assembly of Jinn! Many did you mislead of men," and their friends among the people will say: "Our Lord! We benefited one from the other, but now we have reached our appointed term which You did appoint for us. " He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling place, you will dwell therein forever, except as Allah may will. Certainly your Lord is All-Wise, All-Knowing."
 
Likewise there are many verses which say that disbelievers shall be in hell forever. I remember, you discussing, "khalideena fiha " once, which means, hamesha, hamesha ke liye. {Forever }.
 
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Skr_of_knwldg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skr_of_knwldg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2008 at 9:36am
Assalamu Alaikum,

I have a question realated to this topic. May Allah Reward you all this was really beneficial.

I have always pondered about it to, that everything has been presdestined and as a result came to the conclusion that since Allah is All knowing he knows about what you would do before you even do it. Just as seekshidayath put in in his post. Though I came to two conclusions rather, that life also is like a tree and points at which we make decisions are like the points where the branches split. Thus I see it as the tree is like faith which has all the acions that you could possible do and it is upto one to make choices on which path to follow.

So, I see it as combined with since Allah (SWT) know everything and has already knows the decisions you would pick, and that faith is like a tree implying that we do have free will.

Please this is just something that I came to conclude, I would really need confirmation on this...

May Allah Reward you :)
Abdullah
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote seekshidayath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2008 at 8:02pm
As'Salamu Alaikum,
 
Good and simple work - skr of knowledge. That example makes us  easy to understand the concept.
 
I totally agree with this
 
"So, I see it as combined with since Allah (SWT) know everything and has already knows the decisions you would pick, and that faith is like a tree implying that we do have free will."

 

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alwardah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 July 2008 at 9:40am

As Salamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

I think this question relates to Al-Qadaa and Al-Qadar

I have discussed this concept before, there�s the link

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9136

Wa Alaikum Salams

�Verily your Lord is quick in punishment; yet He is indeed Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (Surah Al-An�am 6:165)
"Indeed, we belong to Allah and to Him is our return" (Surah Baqarah 2: 155)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IssaEl999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 March 2011 at 6:08pm
El's Holy Qur'aan 7 ; 172 - 179 , And I Quote ; Adam's Offspring Will Watch Against Their Ownselves ~ Enosites And Jinn Will Be Prepared For Jahannam .

Edited by IssaEl999 - 30 March 2011 at 6:09pm
El's Holy Qur'aan , States In Chapter 17 ; 81 , '' And Say ; Truth Has ( Now ) Arrived , And Falsehood Perished ; For Falsehood Is ( By Its Nature ) Bound To Perish (81 ) .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rememberallah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2011 at 10:19am
destiny can be changed.
The whole world is like Hazrat Umar but no one is like his sister and brother in law.
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