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DoMuslims honor Jesus' wishes?
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believer View Drop Down
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Points: 1397 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote believer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 July 2008 at 3:57pm
LOL!!  minuteman how many times do we have to repeat-
READ THE WHOLE STORY!! 
 
You will never understand Jesus and the Gospel if you don't  close the Quran, open your heart and read the true Gospel. 
 
Why do I say close the Quran-because there is nothing in the Quran that tells you about Jesus' holy character.
 
Excuse me for shouting but If you are unable to read what I have pasted PLEASE read the part I made bold.
 
Luke 22
 
33But he replied, "Lord, I am ready to go with you to prison and to death."

 34Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me."

 35Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
      "Nothing," they answered.

 36He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

 38The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
      "That is enough," he replied.

Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives
 39Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40On reaching the place, he said to them, "Pray that you will not fall into temptation." 41He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

 45When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46"Why are you sleeping?" he asked them. "Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation."

Jesus Arrested
 47While he was still speaking a crowd came up, and the man who was called Judas, one of the Twelve, was leading them. He approached Jesus to kiss him, 48but Jesus asked him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"

 49When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" 50And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear.

 51But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.

 52Then Jesus said to the chief priests, the officers of the temple guard, and the elders, who had come for him, "Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come with swords and clubs? 53Every day I was with you in the temple courts, and you did not lay a hand on me. But this is your hour�when darkness reigns."



Edited by believer - 11 July 2008 at 4:01pm
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

 
 robin, that is not the reply to my post. I had explained to you that our prophet acted like did Jesus for 13 years in Makkah. He never opposed the oppressor.  All the Muslims suffered very much at the hands o fthe pagans. The Muslims were killed in large numbers by the cruel pagans. The Muslims even had to migrate to a nearby decent christian kingdom. But the pagans followed the Muslims there too.
 
 So the prophet and Muslims did act (for 13 years) exactly as Jesus had been teaching. But I would remind you that Jesus had  a plan to buy the swords even by selling clothes. That is written in the bible. He had ordered for swords to be bought even by selling clothes. What was the purpose?? He was not doing anything useless or meaningless. The only thing is that he did not get that far where he could use a sword. He had the plan but his enemies caught up too quickly with him.

 

Like Jesus true Christian engage in spiritual warfare:-

 
2 Corinthians 10:3-5
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage warfare according to [what we are in the] flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. 5 For we are overturning reasonings* and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge* of God; and we are bringing every thought* into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ. .."
*Thus spiritual

We do as Jesus did said, when he was dying, 'forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.'



Edited by robin - 11 July 2008 at 11:31am
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 robin, that is not the reply to my post. I had explained to you that our prophet acted like did Jesus for 13 years in Makkah. He never opposed the oppressor.  All the Muslims suffered very much at the hands o fthe pagans. The Muslims were killed in large numbers by the cruel pagans. The Muslims even had to migrate to a nearby decent christian kingdom. But the pagans followed the Muslims there too.
 
 So the prophet and Muslims did act (for 13 years) exactly as Jesus had been teaching. But I would remind you that Jesus had  a plan to buy the swords even by selling clothes. That is written in the bible. He had ordered for swords to be bought even by selling clothes. What was the purpose?? He was not doing anything useless or meaningless. The only thing is that he did not get that far where he could use a sword. He had the plan but his enemies caught up too quickly with him.
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Jesus Christ further deserves honour because the Bible says of him at:-

 

Matthew 28:18

And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: �All authority has been given* me in heaven and on the earth.

*�Given� passed tense

 

Matthew 11:27

All things have been* delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.

*� have been� passed tense.

 

John 3:35

The Father loves the Son and has given* all things into his hand.

*�Given� passed tense

 

John 17:2

according as you have given* him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole [number] whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life.

*�Given� passed tense

 

Luke 10:22

All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and who the Son is no one knows but the Father; and who the Father is, no one [knows] but the Son, and he to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.�

*� have been� passed tense.

 

An further to the above he deserves honor because he is Jehovah�s chief angel, or archangel. On what basis do we reach that conclusion? Well, the prefix �arch,� meaning �chief� or �principal,� implies that there is only one archangel. God�s Word speaks of him in reference to the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ. We read at 1 Thessalonians 4:16:-

 
"because the Lord [Jesus] himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel�s voice and with God�s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 

 

Of this archangel has a name, as we read at Jude 9:-

 

�When Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses� body, he did not dare to bring a judgment against him in abusive terms, but said: �May Jehovah rebuke you.��

 

In not running ahead of Jehovah by daring to bring judgment against the Devil, Jesus thus honoured his God and heavenly Father Jehovah.
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Originally posted by minuteman minuteman wrote:

 

  That is beside the point. The words of Jesus were right for that time. It was necessary to be like that, to act like that. Even prophet Muhammad acted like that for thirteen years in Makkah. Exactly the way Jesus had advised his disciples.

 Remember that our prophet Muhammad is like Jesus and  like Moses a.s. He had two names, i.e. Muhammad and Ahmad.
 
The name Ahmad was in action in Makkah for the first 13 years. Ahmad means "The one who praises (Allah) most", i.e. the one who praises maximum. This name Ahmad is the Jamaali name, i.e. it has beauty and love and gentleness. (as had Jesus)
 
The name Muhammad was the picture of Moses a.s. Muhammad was like Moses a.s. and that name was in action in Madinah. That is the name called "jalaali=authoritative, glorious, powerful.  That was like Moses a.s.  Muhammad means "The one who is praised most (by Allah)", i.e. praise worthy.
 
  
 The problem is that love your enemy cannot be the ultimate lesson. Nobody can do it. But I know that Jehovas Witnesses are against bloodshed and they may be against joining armed forces too. That is their business and I would not say anything against that.
 
 But please remember that Islam does forget forgiving (loving) the enemy. It also tries to love the enemy if the love could be helpful (useful} to that enemy. I hope you understand the Islamic point of view.
 
 The Muslims are told to love and forgive the enemy if that will help him to understand things. If it would help him to come to the right track, better gentle way of life. (He need not become a Muslim. But he must become peaceful).
 But if love will not help him then there is no use loving him. That would spoil him all the more. I can present the verses of Quran in this regard that the teachings of the Quran do suggest loving and forgiving if it could be useful.
 
Through not doing as Jesus said fills the earth with evil violence and blood shed!

 

Thus religions are at fault that disobeys him!
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mariyah � Matthew, Luke and Mark are not from St. Paul.  They are part of the very Gospel validated in the Quran.

005.068                                                                                                          YUSUFALI: Say: "O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord." It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. But sorrow thou not over people without Faith.
PICKTHAL: Say O People of the Scripture! Ye have naught till ye observe the Torah and the Gospel and that which was revealed unto you from your Lord. That which is revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them. But grieve not for the disbelieving folk.
SHAKIR: Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.

 
Here is the Gospel dealing with the verses in the original aramaic.

http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/1_Matthew/Mattich26.pdf

http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/2_Mark/Marqsch14.pdf

http://www.aramaicpeshitta.com/AramaicNTtools/Peshittainterlinear/3_Luke/Luqach22.pdf



Edited by believer - 08 July 2008 at 10:59am
John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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24      One man gives freely, yet gains even more; another withholds    unduly, but comes to poverty.

25      A generous man will prosper; he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed.
Proverbs 11:24-25

1
"Be careful not to do your `acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2
"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
3
But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
4
so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matthew 6:1-4

13
But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind,
14
and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous."
Luke 14:13-14
17
If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?
18
Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
I John 3:17-18

    In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: "It is more blessed to give than to receive."
    Acts 20:35

    for riches do not endure forever, and a crown is not secure for all generations.
    Proverbs 27:24

    Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
    II Corinthians 9:7

    Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give
    Matthew 10:8

    Whoever loves money never has money enough; whoever loves wealth is never satisfied with his income. This too is meaningless.
    Ecclesiastes 5:10

    Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.
    Hebrews 13:2

John 3
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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  That is beside the point. The words of Jesus were right for that time. It was necessary to be like that, to act like that. Even prophet Muhammad acted like that for thirteen years in Makkah. Exactly the way Jesus had advised his disciples.

 Remember that our prophet Muhammad is like Jesus and  like Moses a.s. He had two names, i.e. Muhammad and Ahmad.
 
The name Ahmad was in action in Makkah for the first 13 years. Ahmad means "The one who praises (Allah) most", i.e. the one who praises maximum. This name Ahmad is the Jamaali name, i.e. it has beauty and love and gentleness. (as had Jesus)
 
The name Muhammad was the picture of Moses a.s. Muhammad was like Moses a.s. and that name was in action in Madinah. That is the name called "jalaali=authoritative, glorious, powerful.  That was like Moses a.s.  Muhammad means "The one who is praised most (by Allah)", i.e. praise worthy.
 
  
 The problem is that love your enemy cannot be the ultimate lesson. Nobody can do it. But I know that Jehovas Witnesses are against bloodshed and they may be against joining armed forces too. That is their business and I would not say anything against that.
 
 But please remember that Islam does forget forgiving (loving) the enemy. It also tries to love the enemy if the love could be helpful (useful} to that enemy. I hope you understand the Islamic point of view.
 
 The Muslims are told to love and forgive the enemy if that will help him to understand things. If it would help him to come to the right track, better gentle way of life. (He need not become a Muslim. But he must become peaceful).
 But if love will not help him then there is no use loving him. That would spoil him all the more. I can present the verses of Quran in this regard that the teachings of the Quran do suggest loving and forgiving if it could be useful.


Edited by minuteman - 08 July 2008 at 4:38am
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