|
A muslimah in frustration |
Post Reply 
|
Page <12345 7> |
| Author | ||
Shasta'sAunt 
Senior Member 
Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Posted: 09 July 2008 at 12:46am |
|
|
Assalamu Alaikum:
Yes, I am a revert of eleven plus years. I studied Islam for perhaps ten years before I reverted. I have found that many reverts are extremely knowledgeable about Islam because they do tend to study before and after reverting. They are not subject to the cultural baggage that people born into Islam seem to have, nor do they do things a certain way simply because that's what their family has always done.
Look at the emerging scholars today: Humsa Yusuf, Siraj Wahhaj, Yusuf Islam, Abdal Hakim Murad, they are reverts. Jeffrey Lang and Karen Armstrong have become very well known for their writings on Islam and Muslims in the west. Both reverts.
Reverting to Islam gives you an opportunity to learn about Islam without all of the external influences often found within established Muslim families and societies. You are not burdened by the perspective of generations of culture and familial pressure, and unthinking obedience.
|
||
|
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
||
 |
||
|
Nausheen
Moderator Group
Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 July 2008 at 8:14pm |
|
|
Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,
Bismillah ir Rahman ir Rahim
Chrysalis,
My post was not directed to anyone in particular. To me the most needy person is myself, all muslims being better, because I know my follies.
SA is a revert, and reverts to me are like my 10 year old who is so new to Islam. Yet, I have read SA on many occasions where she has posed arguments better than anyone on these boards - so please let me not judge.
I know that people can be "informed" on forums. But I also know that when we argue people usually switch off their "understanding" faculties, and switch on their "refuting" faculties. So the best thing is to allow them room for their own study. SH had been trying to give some pragmatic advice, but it will only be received by any of you when you have done your own study on the matter.
As for the debate of men and women and their equality in Islam. What is the meaning of equality, I ask all of you?
Islam says a man is protector and provider of his women folk - and it nowhere places the burden of being a provider on the woman - is this inequality?
If you open any book on islamic rights and duties in a marriage, there is a small section on woman's duties, and an endlessly long section on her rights. Is this inequality?
The door to anyone's jannah is from his/her mother's feet, not the father's feet. Is this inequality?
A woman gets the thawab of hajj when she wakes up one time to tend to her baby. Can anyone show me any hadith where a father gets the same thawab? Is this inequality?
Yet, all of this looks like a woman is being preferred.
And there can be several other examples where you will find men are being preferred.
In reality neither one is being preferred over the other due to any gender bias.
Men and women, arab and non arab are all equal in term of human rights. And they are all equal with respect to righteousness. If a man prays tahajjud his prayer is no better than a woman who gets up to pray, except when the circumstances of the two are different, and their devotion is different.
So islam has marked roles for each in a society. Islam also demands different types of "birr" from each. Because islam does recognise them as different. If "different" translates as "unequal" it is a problem of comprehension, nothing more.
Just a small side note: I have long decided not to read on islamonline.net or islamqa .... I found some things seriously contradictory to what I alrady know and my way of learning is that if I find some flaw in a website I dont rely on it primarily. I am not saying the shaykh there don't have knowledge, just that I might run into problems understanding things if I were to spend time there.
Best places to read is a good book. After that, one may research a website and read only when the heart is settled to what they are relaying. So no comment on the links.
SA, I agree with all that you directed to me in the above post.
I am not sure how one can say women are inferior in intellect.
The only thing I know scientifically is that a bigger brain is considered as better in mental ability. On "an average" - and not in exceptional cases - a baby boy's brain weighs more than a baby girls.
The brains of men and women work differently, so the execution of tasks is different depending on gender. Men are better with precision, and women are better in executing multiple tasks at the same time. I don't know if that can spell superiority of one over another - did not read any such thing so far.
There is an incident in quran where it is stated that two female witnesses are required as opposed to one male - this is explained by scholars as a wisdom because women tend to forget facts more quickly than men. Some people might read that as lesser mental ability - wallahu alam.
I read that the power to forget is a blessing from Allah, because if we were not able to do that life would have been very miserable since we would be carrying all the baggage of bad experiences into the rest of our lives.
In the same vein, it was said that the word for womb is rahm which comes from the rood word rahma or mercy. It is the woman who carries the womb, and Allah has placed in a woman a greater ability to have mercy - she is softer, more compassionate and kinder. This difference is agian not an inequality, rather out of a wisdom, because men and women have different roles and responsibilities in society.
Mercy and compassion cannot develop if one were to keep grudges. A woman is more compassionate because her ability to forget is better than of a man - in other words it is easier for her to let go of grudges than men.
Having a finer ability to forget bad experiences does not mean this human brain is less eqquipped to retain important details which it forces to retain.
Another subject I wished to touch - was mentioned by others.
If you think men and women are same in their sensualities you are again wrong. It is a scientifically proven fact that a man's bloodstream carreis 5-20% more testosterone than a woman's. This brings about many behavorial differences between the two.
A situation which is more likely to make a man slip, a woman might not even notice it. A row of magazines on a stand with "less appropriate" pictures are "more likely" to arouse a man's feelings than a woman's.
Same element is never a source of same level of temptation for the two genders - and I wont debate this, rather leave if for you either to disagree or research.
If Islam allows women to go out, it does not mean it is preferable for them to go out rather than stay indoors.
Since Islam is very rational, it does not pose absolutes on us, instead leaves many areas for flexibility depending on situations. Look at marriage - it is said that one who marries has completed 50% of his deen, and marriage is highly recommended. However, it is still not a fard, but remains a sunnah. Why?
The answer is obvious, not everyone may have the wherewithal to marry ... thus it remains a sunnah - a highly recommended sunnah.
In the same way, the religion was not designed to confine women in their homes, they are allowed to go out and seek their needs - yet the better for them is that they stay at homes. In one of the duties of a husband is that when he leaves his home he should take care so far that he makes sure she has the material to wash her hair ... whatever it used to be in olden times.
Women are not fitna, but they are more likely to become a cause of fitna. Confining them is not an opression, rather a means of protection. If we want to see this in a positive light the insinuations are plenty. Yet if we want to get sensitive about the matter, our miseries will likewise be plenty.
Even here in Japan which is such a safe society that in general there is no danger for a girl walking on a lonely street in the middle of the night, yet we do here cases of molestation in this country. We do hear advices from wise people to not do "foolish" things.
If we look at the whole thing its a matter of rationale, and not oppression, rights, daleel etc etc ...
Edited by Nausheen - 08 July 2008 at 8:38pm |
||
|
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
||
|
||
|
seekshidayath
Senior Member 
Female Islam Joined: 26 March 2006 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 3357 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 July 2008 at 7:07pm |
|
|
As'Salamu Alaikum,
Hope sisters, you shall excuse me for sometime. I need some time to concentrate and read your posts well to reply you all. Insha Allah, i shall surely post mine.
|
||
|
Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: �All the descendants of Adam are sinners, and the best of sinners are those who repent."
|
||
|
||
|
Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member
Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 July 2008 at 3:59pm |
|
|
Sister Nausheen:
There were links posted to some fatwas which stated that women were inferior in their mental abilities. That is why I have responded so fervently.
I have never thought that women who work outside the home are superior to women who work inside. They are all working extremely hard and choosing what they believe is important. I object 100% to any "sheik" or "scholar" stating there is no doubt in Islam that men are mentally superior to women. THere are no Islamic grounds for such a statement and even though I have asked repeatedly for one Ayat that negates those I have posted showing our equal nature, not identical, equal, none have been forthcoming.
I know that there are Muslims who will still hold these views as truth even without daleel of any sort, but I hope that anyone who comes here to learn will take into account the actual Words of Allah, not our personal opinions.
I wrote this on another thread which was about the same general issue, but I think it is appropo here:
I have read so many articles trying to explain that Islam does not oppress women, Islam was the first religion to give women their rights, etc... yet the very fact that these articles have to be written to try to convince people this is so means that something is very wrong. If the Ummah were truly treating women the way Allah intended and giving women all of their rights there would be no need for such articles and assurances because it would be a nonissue, it would just be a fact of life. |
||
|
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
||
|
||
|
Chrysalis
Senior Member
Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 July 2008 at 1:42am |
|
Though what you say is true Nausheen, that one cannot change opinions on issues. I believe many like me, do not post just so they can change the other's opinion. . .
Speaking for myself, I knw that when I put forward the opposite view or any knowledge, especially on a public forum such as this one, or you-tube for e.g it also educates others who happen to chance upon it. For e.g a muslim that is ignorant of Islamic injunctions, or a non-muslim that thinks Islam is a dark religion. Many a times I'm sure there are muslims out there on the brink, who have been let down by the culture-tainted version of Islam, and may be pushed on either side of the line of Islam. . . Thus I knw that atleast I did my job by putting the view I believe is the Islamic-based one. And thus I cease to post replies on threads that I believe are turning into a 'debate' rather than discussion . . .
PS: I know this was meant at Shasta's Aunt, but I can relate to her wanting to strive to put the info based on islamic sources out there. Which is why I added my own 2 cents.
|
||
|
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
|
||
|
||
|
Nausheen
Moderator Group
Female Joined: 10 January 2001 Status: Offline Points: 4251 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 July 2008 at 12:02am |
|
|
Not sure what this thread is exactly about ... but there are no barriers to which thoughts can go, so lets flow by the trend :0) I simply dont understand how someone who stays at home has become "inferior". Can anyone explain that, please. Also to Hayfa ... if you may please take the time to carefully read on various strings regarding the topic of working women, nowhere it has been stated that you should be confined to your home when there is a genuine need to go and earn. of course the whole discussion is about working because of the "work culture" rather for any specific need. SH:: I commend your himmah on this topic. Just know that the forums are to exchange and not to change opinions. In other words you wont be able to change anyone's thinking even if you were to exhaust yourself to eternity. I remember debating with a brother on these very forums - and might I add - endlessly - about women's education. He said there is no need for women to go to schools and colleges and they can serve as very good mothers even without any formal education. Today, I still don't agree with the first part of that debate ... ie the "no need of any education" concept, but over the time my view of a "good mother" has changed to the point that I do believe uneducated (in secular sciences) mothers can do a great job bringing up children. At least I know my grandmother who knows only Urdu as a language of communication, and besides that she can read arabic. But she is a wonderful muslima and has been a wonderful mother -and a wonderful grandmother. -- so people's views change in time, but they certainly don't change by reading a long post on IC forums - so, my advice to you, and I pray you don't burn yourself over the matter.Edited by Nausheen - 08 July 2008 at 12:03am |
||
|
<font color=purple>Wanu nazzilu minal Qurani ma huwa
Shafaa un wa rahmatun lil mo'mineena wa la yaziduzzalimeena illa khasara.[/COLOR] |
||
|
||
|
Chrysalis
Senior Member
Joined: 25 November 2007 Status: Offline Points: 2033 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 July 2008 at 2:05am |
|
From a previous post: When you are in a congregation, there are all sorts of ppl in them . . good, bad, perverts, etc etc. During prayers, one has to go thru various positions, bending over, bowing down etc, this may expose parts of the body or make them look obvious. . . you cannot ensure that the men behind the women do not leer at her or, or lose the purpose of the prayer.
Women also have a certain amount of privacy at the back . . . they may want to breastfeed a child, adjust the hijab etc. Some women observe the Niqaab, and have to remove it for prayers, thus they too need to be at the back as well.
Just because a person is at the front, and another is at the back, does not denote inferiority. You can use the same analogy for the Imam of the prayer and the Jamaat. . .one can use that logic to say that the people standing behind the Imam are inferior to him?!? No. The placements of the Jamaat have nothing to do with inferiority/supererioty etc.
|
||
|
"O Lord, forgive me, my parents and Muslims in the Hereafter. O Lord, show mercy on them as they showed mercy to me when I was young."
|
||
|
||
|
Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member
Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 05 July 2008 at 10:00am |
|
|
When witnesses are needed regarding other aspects such as committing zina, theft, rape, the number of witnesses remains the same whether men or women. In the case of zina or rape in which the penalty would be death, why didn't Allah demand double the number of female witnesses? This is a far more serious matter than indebtedness. I don't think anyone has said that men and women are not different. I think what we are saying is that they are equal. Equal does not mean identical. Equal means like in quality, nature, or status. What I have been saying is that nowhere in the Quran does is state that men and women are not equal except where it comes to maintenance which is an obligation from Allah upon men. The Quran clearly states that men and women are like in quality, nature and status:
4:1 O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.
|
||
|
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
||
|
||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <12345 7> |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
Nausheen wrote: