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Whisper View Drop Down
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2008 at 10:51am
It is my recollection that Afghanistan had almost worldwide acceptance, and even in the Arab and Islamic world.  The build up to war in Iraq was totally different and should not now be joined with Afghanistan, even though today, the quagmire is synonymous.
 
There were other other nobler options for Afghanistan, but these didn't offer the prospect of limitless profits, for the US Corporatocracy that the war does.
 
The Afghans in general are now bleeding the NATO in Afghanistan in broad day light.
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2008 at 10:53am
We the people have more power than you believe. We stopped illegal immigration/amnesty in its tracks.  We have the power to vote Congress and the President out of power.Wink
 
Do you come every monsoon or is it just some special appearance?
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Originally posted by aspacia aspacia wrote:

We the people have more power than you believe. We stopped illegal immigration/amnesty in its tracks.  We have the power to vote Congress and the President out of power.Wink
 
We the people actually have very little power. We vote on what we are given to vote upon and rarely are we the people given the option to truly choose who or what that might be. 
 
Case in point, the Presidential election where we have perhaps seven or eight candidates to choose from to begin with, then the super delegates choose two that we are supposed to vote for, but the Electoral College actually elects the President. Popular vote really doesn't count.   If we truly had power and could vote for whomever we wanted there would be hundreds of choices and we the people would ACTUALLY get to vote. 
And as the 2000 election attests, even the Electoral College can be usurped and the office of President assigned by the Supreme Court.
 
We the people cannot impeach the president no matter what he has done. The House Judiciary Committee must draw up the Articles of Impeachment and The House of Representatives must impeach, then send the Articles to the Senate where two thirds of the Senate must vote for impeachment.
 
We the people cannot even submit a Bill of Law to be considered for passage without a representative or senator to sponsor or introduce the bill. So if you don't have a member of the government willing to sponsor your law then you are totally helpless.  Clearly we the people have no power when it comes to passing laws in this country.
 
So, in reality we the people of the United States have very little power at all.  We have given it all away to the government which now refuses to give it back, and we have become too lazy or ignorant to do anything about it.
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Points: 66 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aspacia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:29am
Originally posted by Salams_wife Salams_wife wrote:

I was thinking the same thing brother Abuayisha.  They are two seperate wars though both were started by the US.
 
I am sad to see some of our freedoms going with only the smallest cry to stop them.


I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening.  We did not start the Afghanistan war, the Taliban aided and abetted those who attacked our civilians.
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aspacia View Drop Down
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Points: 66 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aspacia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2008 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Originally posted by aspacia aspacia wrote:

We the people have more power than you believe. We stopped illegal immigration/amnesty in its tracks.  We have the power to vote Congress and the President out of power.Wink
 
Quote We the people actually have very little power. We vote on what we are given to vote upon and rarely are we the people given the option to truly choose who or what that might be.


LOL, we have the power to write and petition for new laws.  We the people frequently do this.

 
Quote Case in point, the Presidential election where we have perhaps seven or eight candidates to choose from to begin with, then the super delegates choose two that we are supposed to vote for,


This is a Democratic phenomena, no other party has this nonsense.  I should know, as I was a Democrat for 50+ years.


Quote but the Electoral College actually elects the President. Popular vote really doesn't count.


True, and I am pleased you know this.  The Founding Fathers created this as they did not really trust the "unwashed masses."  These folks were rich, White elitists.

Kennedy won the Electoral vote, Nixon the popular.  This frequently occurs.

Quote   If we truly had power and could vote for whomever we wanted there would be hundreds of choices and we the people would ACTUALLY get to vote.


You may write in any name you choose, I have written in Mickey Mouse more than once.LOL

Quote And as the 2000 election attests, even the Electoral College can be usurped and the office of President assigned by the Supreme Court.


Most of whom were appointed by Bush Sr. 
 
Quote We the people cannot impeach the president no matter what he has done. The House Judiciary Committee must draw up the Articles of Impeachment and The House of Representatives must impeach, then send the Articles to the Senate where two thirds of the Senate must vote for impeachment.


True, and who votes these folks into power?  We the people.  Who votes them out when we are ticked off ?  We the people.  Why do you think California has Arnold as a governor?  We ditched Gray Davis.
 
Quote We the people cannot even submit a Bill of Law to be considered for passage without a representative or senator to sponsor or introduce the bill.


If enough people sign the petition for a new law, their representative had better sponsor it, or he/she will be history after a recall election.

Quote So if you don't have a member of the government willing to sponsor your law then you are totally helpless.  Clearly we the people have no power when it comes to passing laws in this country.


Not so.  Try to lose the victim identification, petition your representatives, governors, mayors, etc.  I sure do.  That is, I raise hell, write, call, send faxes when angry or pleased with what those on my payroll do.  Heck, I pay enough in taxes, they had better listen.
 
[quote]So, in reality we the people of the United States have very little power at all.  We have given it all away to the government which now refuses to give it back, and we have become too lazy or ignorant to do anything about it.


If the people choose laziness and ignorance, do not vote, etc. they deserve no better.  Those who make their voices heard, are usually listened to.  Wbya and McCain backed off Amnesty, but the Congress keeps attempting do push this through a piece at a time.  Just keep reminding them who they work for, and that you are not pleased.  I sure do.
Curious
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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"So if you don't have a member of the government willing to sponsor your law then you are totally helpless.  Clearly we the people have no power when it comes to passing laws in this country.

Not so.  Try to lose the victim identification, petition your representatives, governors, mayors, etc.  I sure do.  That is, I raise hell, write, call, send faxes when angry or pleased with what those on my payroll do.  Heck, I pay enough in taxes, they had better listen."

How many laws have you personally passed?

70% of Americans are unhappy with the current administration yet this fact has not curtailed their activities at all. Hardly a government of the people since it is not representing the majority of those it governs, or is that not a criteria?
 
I'm no victim, more of a realist.


Edited by Shasta'sAunt - 19 July 2008 at 5:53pm
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
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Points: 1930 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2008 at 5:58pm
Originally posted by aspacia aspacia wrote:

Originally posted by Salams_wife Salams_wife wrote:

I was thinking the same thing brother Abuayisha.  They are two seperate wars though both were started by the US.
 
I am sad to see some of our freedoms going with only the smallest cry to stop them.


I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening.  We did not start the Afghanistan war, the Taliban aided and abetted those who attacked our civilians.
 
If you want to look at it that way, the U.S. declared war with the Middle East oil nations when it helped to assassinate elected leaders in Iran and Iraq for trying to nationalize the oil fields, helped to keep the tyrant monarchy of the Sauds and other tyrant regimes in power.
 
Our government has been responsible for the deaths of untold civilians in the Middle East. Sounds like war to me.
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
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Whisper View Drop Down
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Points: 4752 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Whisper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 July 2008 at 9:10pm
I beg to differ with you.  bin Laden declared war on us in 1993, and we weren't listening. 
Will you invite me to your 15th birthday?
So Bin Laden just declared war as if it were part of some script written by some cocaine junkie?
And, it had nada to do with the American occupation of Muslim lands?
And, he had a following only because people didn't like the American faces?
Just like that!
No causes, just the effect. Love your poetry.
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