Recent Udhiya/Qurbani Orders at IslamiCity
  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  CalendarCalendar  Search The ForumSearch  HelpHelp
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin  Old ForumOld Forum  Twitter  Facebook
Advertisement:
         

General Discussion
 IslamiCity Forum - Islamic Discussion Forum : General : General Discussion
Message Icon Topic: Water-Fuel Powered Car Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 3 Next >>
Author Message
abuayisha
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 05 October 1999
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4779
Quote abuayisha Replybullet Topic: Water-Fuel Powered Car
    Posted: 14 June 2008 at 5:42pm
IP IP Logged
Angel
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6642
Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2008 at 6:57am
water fuel powered car, wouldn't go down well in my country we are on water restrictions.
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
IP IP Logged
rami
Male  Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar
Senior Member

Joined: 01 March 2000
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2550
Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 16 June 2008 at 9:19pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

assalamu alikum

thanks for posting this brother, the way they reported it you'd think it was everyday the big petroleum companies went out of business.

Angel the car runs on sea water, you can even go have picnic and drink some tea with the car LOL

--------------------

Official Website


How it Works

The main feature of the new system is that it uses the company's membrane electrode assembly (MEA), which contains a material capable of breaking down water into hydrogen and oxygen through a chemical reaction. With the new process, the cell needs only water and air, eliminating the need for a hydrogen reformer and high-pressure hydrogen tank. Moreover, the MEA requires no special catalysts, and the required amount of rare metals such as platinum is almost the same as that of existing systems. It is expected to have a longer life because catalyst degradation (poisoning) caused by CO does not occur on the fuel electrode side.

120W fuel cell system

The voltage of the fuel cell stack is 25-30V. Because the stack is composed of 40 cells connected in series, it is expected that the output per cell is 3W or higher, the voltage is about 0.5-0.7V, and the current is about 6-7A. The power density is likely to be not less than 30mW/cm2 because the reaction area of the cell is 10 x 10 cm.


300W fuel cell system


The 300W fuel cell system is an active system, which supplies water and air with a pump. In a demonstration, Genepax powered a TV and the lighting equipment with a lead-acid battery charged by using the system. In addition, the 300W system was mounted in the luggage coppartment of a compact electric vehicle "Reva" manufactured by Takeoka Mini Car Products Co Ltd, and the vehicle was actually driven by the system.

Costs

The production cost is presently about ¥2,000,000 (US$18,522), it estimated that it can be reduced to ¥500,000 ($5000) or lower if the company succeeds in mass production.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Genepax_Co_Ltd


I thought this was interesting,

wiki:Richard P. George, Ph.D. wrote:

Even if this works (I'm somewhat skeptical short of more proof), the product is not economic at either their current manufacturing cost ($18,522 for 300 Wp or $61.74 per Wp) or their target rate ($5,000 for 300 Wp or $16.67 per Wp). The use of water for fuel is just a curiosity because the cost is greater than that of traditional fuel cells AND their fuel costs.

I would also want to know about their stack life. Stack life is a huge problem for all fuel cells - many of which have lives measured in hours (typically 6 months to 4 years of continuous operation. For this product to achieve grid parity, it would need a 20 year stack life at 9.5 cents per KWH grid prices or 10 years at 19 cents per KWH.

Genepax response: "The stack life is not yet in data but we imagine our stack would last as long as other fuel cell stack. We have data of other fuel cell in public and it lasts 40,000 hours." Best regards, Jun Onishi

--------------------

Thats about 4.5 years so esentially you would need to change parts in the feul cell or the whole cell depending on design every 4.5 years give or take. If they can bring down the price to $5000 U.S for the fuel cell that would still be cheaper than petrol, assuming you spend $100 a week on petrol thats $5200 a year on fuel....and it does rain water.

-------------------

Genepax.

June 15, 2008 We are preparing an English presentation and demonstration for foreign press which will be held in Tokyo soon.
  • Scheduled to be shown :
    Electricity Generation Module, Prototype Generator System, and All Electric Automobile with on-board WES for continuous battery charging.
  • To attend, please contact the following :
    Jun Onishi [PR Manager]
    Email: [email protected]

Anyone live in Japan Smile



Edited by rami - 16 June 2008 at 11:25pm
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
IP IP Logged
Angel
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6642
Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2008 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by rami


Angel the car runs on sea water, you can even go have picnic and drink some tea with the car LOL 
 
that's sounds funny.
 
sea water, i guess that's ok then, our country is surrounded by it Tongue maybe it would lower the rising water levels Wink

 
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
IP IP Logged
Ron Webb
Male Humanism
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 January 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2492
Quote Ron Webb Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2008 at 7:57pm

I haven't been able to figure out the exact mechanism that is being claimed here, but to be honest I haven't bothered to waste a lot of time trying to figure it out either.  There is a basic flaw to this idea: the amount of energy obtainable by combining hydrogen with oxygen is precisely equal to the amount required to separate it.  It simply can't work.



Edited by Ron Webb - 18 June 2008 at 7:59pm
Addeenul ‘Aql – Religion is intellect.
IP IP Logged
rami
Male  Islam
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar
Senior Member

Joined: 01 March 2000
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2550
Quote rami Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2008 at 9:40pm
Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

Hi Ron,

i only have basic knowledge of chemistry and understand the laws of thermodynamics on a basic level i.e energy in equals energy out but why does the energy required to separate hydrogen from oxygen [being the same amount required to join them] related to how much energy hydrogen provides as a fuel.

To me this seems like two separate issues.


Edited by rami - 18 June 2008 at 9:44pm
Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.
IP IP Logged
imp87
 
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 July 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 164
Quote imp87 Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 4:55am

I like the idea, we have plenty of sea water to use, plus the glaciers are melting so it might stop us from flooding :D lol joke.

But I watched a program about a similar invention to this, again it was a car powered by water but just not as advance.

The guy said, the reason why so they are not in mass production yet is because the water erodes the metal pretty quick. So the life span of these cars, or at least the Motors (wherever the water goes) is much less then a fuel powered car.



Edited by imp87 - 19 June 2008 at 4:56am
We are as pieces of chess engaged in victory and defeat, our victory and defeat is from thee.
IP IP Logged
Angel
 
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 03 July 2001
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6642
Quote Angel Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2008 at 6:21am
I was thinking of eroding before didn't say anything because it was muddled up in thoughts of salt Wacko
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
IP IP Logged
Page  of 3 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed herein contain positions and viewpoints that are not necessarily those of IslamiCity. This forum is offered to stimulate dialogue and discussion in our continuing mission of being an educational organization.
If there is any issue with any of the postings please email to icforum at islamicity.com or if you are a forum's member you can use the report button.

Note: The 99 names of Allah avatars are courtesy of www.arthafez.com

Advertisement:



Sponsored by:
Islamicity Membership Program:
IslamiCity Donation Program  http://www.islamicity.com/Donate
IslamiCity Arabic eLearning http://www.islamiCity.com/ArabAcademy
Complete Domain & Hosting Solutions www.icDomain.com
Home for Muslim Tunes www.icTunes.com
Islamic Video Collections www.islamiTV.com
IslamiCity Marriage Site www.icMarriage.com