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PattyaMainer 
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 Posted: 29 November 2008 at 7:14pm |
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity.
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"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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Mansoor_ali
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Posted: 30 November 2008 at 11:29am |
 PattyaMainer wrote:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity. |
Here is the link which brushes argument about Jesus
being worshiped: http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttaltosamshamoun25.htm
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honeto
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Posted: 01 December 2008 at 4:51pm |
PattyaMainer wrote:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity.
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Dear Patty,
I note that in your quote above its someone other than Jesus that is saying what it is saying: i.e. "Jesus Christ be worshipped."
Here is a quote from the same Bible, and these words suppose to be coming out of the mouth of Jesus, and here it is as if he is speaking, delivering a command, let's read it:
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Hasan
Edited by honeto - 01 December 2008 at 4:53pm
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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PattyaMainer
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Joined: 03 August 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 352
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Posted: 01 December 2008 at 5:11pm |
honeto wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity.
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Dear Patty,
I note that in your quote above its someone other than Jesus that is saying what it is saying: i.e. "Jesus Christ be worshipped."
Here is a quote from the same Bible, and these words suppose to be coming out of the mouth of Jesus, and here it is as if he is speaking, delivering a command, let's read it:
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Hasan
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Yes, Hasan, it is God who is speaking in the verse above from Deuteronomy. Hasan, I thought Muslims did not believe in the NT, yet you are quoting a verse from St. John, one of the four Gospels in the NT. Why would you believe this verse? But since you did post this one verse from the Gospel of St. John, I'll add a couple more verses so that you can see what Jesus was really stating:
John 4:20-26 (New International Version)
20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."
God's Peace,
Patty
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"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
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honeto
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Joined: 20 March 2008
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Posted: 03 December 2008 at 6:03pm |
PattyaMainer wrote:
honeto wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity.
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Dear Patty,
I note that in your quote above its someone other than Jesus that is saying what it is saying: i.e. "Jesus Christ be worshipped."
Here is a quote from the same Bible, and these words suppose to be coming out of the mouth of Jesus, and here it is as if he is speaking, delivering a command, let's read it:
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Hasan
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Yes, Hasan, it is God who is speaking in the verse above from Deuteronomy. Hasan, I thought Muslims did not believe in the NT, yet you are quoting a verse from St. John, one of the four Gospels in the NT. Why would you believe this verse? But since you did post this one verse from the Gospel of St. John, I'll add a couple more verses so that you can see what Jesus was really stating:
John 4:20-26 (New International Version)
20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."
God's Peace,
Patty
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Dear Patty,
let me clear out your confusion, I do not believe the present form of what we now know as the Bible to be God's pure word sent down to prophets before the last prophet, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). The reason I quote from it is to show those who believe in it when engaged in a conversation like this to prove or disprove a claim.
Deuteronomy 32:16 was to show you that God does not like the worship of other than God, also it shows that God does not like idols be worshipped. That and many other verses in the Bible, including that of the ten commandments clearly state not erecting idols of God or any living thing for the purpose of worship. I mention that to show Catholics that by making representations of any living thing, praying and bowing down to them is against the teachings of not just the Quran, but the very book they claim to be guiding them!
In response you wrote the folowing:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity."
Now to show you that your quote of worshipping Jesus cannot be true since in the same Bible Jesus is quoted to have said that actually its God (the Father) that to be worshipped. Here is that quote again:
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
So my use of these quotes from the Bible is to show you, who believe in it to be true word of God, that it also negate almost every claim you make and prove through it.
Hasan
T
Edited by honeto - 03 December 2008 at 6:05pm
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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PattyaMainer
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Joined: 03 August 2008
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 352
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Posted: 03 December 2008 at 8:14pm |
honeto wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
honeto wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity.
|
Dear Patty,
I note that in your quote above its someone other than Jesus that is saying what it is saying: i.e. "Jesus Christ be worshipped."
Here is a quote from the same Bible, and these words suppose to be coming out of the mouth of Jesus, and here it is as if he is speaking, delivering a command, let's read it:
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Hasan
|
Yes, Hasan, it is God who is speaking in the verse above from Deuteronomy. Hasan, I thought Muslims did not believe in the NT, yet you are quoting a verse from St. John, one of the four Gospels in the NT. Why would you believe this verse? But since you did post this one verse from the Gospel of St. John, I'll add a couple more verses so that you can see what Jesus was really stating:
John 4:20-26 (New International Version)
20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."
God's Peace,
Patty
|
Dear Patty,
let me clear out your confusion, I do not believe the present form of what we now know as the Bible to be God's pure word sent down to prophets before the last prophet, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). The reason I quote from it is to show those who believe in it when engaged in a conversation like this to prove or disprove a claim.
Deuteronomy 32:16 was to show you that God does not like the worship of other than God, also it shows that God does not like idols be worshipped. That and many other verses in the Bible, including that of the ten commandments clearly state not erecting idols of God or any living thing for the purpose of worship. I mention that to show Catholics that by making representations of any living thing, praying and bowing down to them is against the teachings of not just the Quran, but the very book they claim to be guiding them!
In response you wrote the folowing:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity."
Now to show you that your quote of worshipping Jesus cannot be true since in the same Bible Jesus is quoted to have said that actually its God (the Father) that to be worshipped. Here is that quote again:
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
So my use of these quotes from the Bible is to show you, who believe in it to be true word of God, that it also negate almost every claim you make and prove through it.
Hasan
T |
I maintain the accuracy and truthfulness of the Holy Bible which was sent to the apostles and disciples from God. You do not believe it, and that is your right. Jesus warned of false prophets who would follow him, and warned us to beware of them.
Hasan, we will just have to agree to disagree. This dialogue is a stalemate. You are devoted to your faith, and I am just as devoted to mine.
I wish you peace.
Patty
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|
"FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS POSSIBLE. FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE, NO EXPLANATION IS NECESSARY."
|
|
Mansoor_ali
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Joined: 25 September 2008
Location: Pakistan
Status: Offline
Points: 584
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Posted: 04 December 2008 at 4:30pm |
PattyaMainer wrote:
Yes, Hasan, it is God who is speaking in the verse above from Deuteronomy. Hasan, I thought Muslims did not believe in the NT, yet you are quoting a verse from St. John, one of the four Gospels in the NT. Why would you believe this verse? |
We believe only in those parts of Bible which are closest to Quran.We donot reject a Bible as a whole.
Visit:
What parts of the Bible do Muslims believe are closest to the Truth?
PattyaMainer wrote:
But since you did post this one verse from the Gospel of St. John, I'll add a couple more verses so that you can see what Jesus was really stating: |
Let's see
PattyaMainer wrote:
John 4:20-26 (New International Version)
20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." |
How can Jesus deserves a worship when he himself clearly worships his father?
PattyaMainer wrote:
25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."
God's Peace,
Patty
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"I who speak to you am he" It simply proves that Jesus was Messiah(he)
Here is proper response
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honeto
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Joined: 20 March 2008
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 2487
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Posted: 04 December 2008 at 6:34pm |
PattyaMainer wrote:
honeto wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
honeto wrote:
PattyaMainer wrote:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity.
|
Dear Patty,
I note that in your quote above its someone other than Jesus that is saying what it is saying: i.e. "Jesus Christ be worshipped."
Here is a quote from the same Bible, and these words suppose to be coming out of the mouth of Jesus, and here it is as if he is speaking, delivering a command, let's read it:
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Hasan
|
Yes, Hasan, it is God who is speaking in the verse above from Deuteronomy. Hasan, I thought Muslims did not believe in the NT, yet you are quoting a verse from St. John, one of the four Gospels in the NT. Why would you believe this verse? But since you did post this one verse from the Gospel of St. John, I'll add a couple more verses so that you can see what Jesus was really stating:
John 4:20-26 (New International Version)
20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."
God's Peace,
Patty
|
Dear Patty,
let me clear out your confusion, I do not believe the present form of what we now know as the Bible to be God's pure word sent down to prophets before the last prophet, Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). The reason I quote from it is to show those who believe in it when engaged in a conversation like this to prove or disprove a claim.
Deuteronomy 32:16 was to show you that God does not like the worship of other than God, also it shows that God does not like idols be worshipped. That and many other verses in the Bible, including that of the ten commandments clearly state not erecting idols of God or any living thing for the purpose of worship. I mention that to show Catholics that by making representations of any living thing, praying and bowing down to them is against the teachings of not just the Quran, but the very book they claim to be guiding them!
In response you wrote the folowing:
"That in the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth..." (Phil. 2:10) It follows then, that it is of the Faith (de Fide) that Jesus Christ is to be worshipped by all men, with the gesture of adoration, which is kneeling before Him in His Sacred Humanity."
Now to show you that your quote of worshipping Jesus cannot be true since in the same Bible Jesus is quoted to have said that actually its God (the Father) that to be worshipped. Here is that quote again:
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
So my use of these quotes from the Bible is to show you, who believe in it to be true word of God, that it also negate almost every claim you make and prove through it.
Hasan
T |
I maintain the accuracy and truthfulness of the Holy Bible which was sent to the apostles and disciples from God. You do not believe it, and that is your right. Jesus warned of false prophets who would follow him, and warned us to beware of them.
Hasan, we will just have to agree to disagree. This dialogue is a stalemate. You are devoted to your faith, and I am just as devoted to mine.
I wish you peace.
Patty |
Dear Patty,
the purpose of whole this hard work is not to say "I believe this and you believe that and we are not going to agree with each other, and yet keep bringing up issues!" rather to back up our claims upon which we profess to build our faiths.
You made a claim, backed it up by a source. The same source should not contradict it, if it does then either: your claim is not true, or your source is inconsistant. There is no hidden truth about it other than that.
Simple truth of what we discussed above is that you through a Bible quote claimed that Jesus to be worshipped, I through another quote from the same book showed you that it is not to be true, and in fact God, the Father is the only one to be worshipped. Now without taking sides, your claim was proven wrong dear, plain and simple.
If I claim, which I do that only God, whom Bible refers as 'Father' is to be worshipped according to the Quran, and then you happen to find a quote that shows somone else to be worshipped, then you have proved me wrong, that simple.
Dear, first we have to test and prove a claim we make before we put our trust, and everything else into it.
Let us apply that simple rule, what we expect when we sign next credit card sales reciept, or a bank, car or legal document. When we sign it after reading /knowing/ understanding and making sure it does not have a descripency we don't get surpises like we do otherwise, when we don't pay attention and sign without reading or understanding it. Is hereafter of less value, or we jsut don't believe it to be true??
Hasan
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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