Jesus was crucified according to historia |
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Larry
Senior Member Male Joined: 16 April 2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 632 |
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Hasan,
I don't have anything "against" Islam, I simply believe that it is not a true Abrahamic religion and that Allah is not the same God that is worshipped by Jews and Christians. A "blood sacrifice" is a sacrifice where a living creature is slaughtered for religious reasons, you yourself call it an "animal sacrifice" in your reply. Whether or not it absolves sins I have no idea. I do know that Muslims believe the "Black Stone" has the power to forgive sins and that on Judgment Day it will "have eyes to see" and a "mouth to testify" for those who have touched it with "sincerity." In Judaism and Christianity we no longer sacrifice animals in our religious rites as the ancients did, we also do not believe that any earthly object, or idol, has any power, let alone the power to absolve someone from their sins. That belongs to God Himself. And the idea that "Ibrahim" (Abu Raheem) and Ishmael "built" the original Kaaba in Mecca is simply ludicrous. Abraham's travels are followed closely in the Bible and he never went anywhere near southern Arabia. This is just another Muslim fabrication to connect Biblical persons with pagan sites, such as the Kaaba, in Arabia and elsewhere, to make a connection with the Old and New Testaments of the Bible. There is not the slightest proof that any monotheistic religion existed in Arabia before Muhammad had his "revelations" in the 7th century A.D. It is the ssame as the Muslim belief that the "furthest mosque" spoken of in the Qur'an was in Jerusalem. During the life of Muhammad there were NO mosques of any kind in Israel (or "Palestine" if you wish). Jerusalem is named 669 times in the Bible, Jerusalem is mentioned 0 Times in the Qur'an, "Palestine" isn't mentioned either. You would think that the "third holiest city" in Islam would be named at least ONCE in the Qur'an, but it's not. The Qur'an is filled with discrepancies from the number of days it took God to create the world to the many different ways that the Qur'an says Muslims should treat the "People of the Book." The Qur'an has no linear qualities, contains no geneaologies of Biblical characters, has no "prophecies" at all, it is arranged in a completely haphazard way, statements and stories are repeated many times. It even shows differences in the way and style that it is written from the Surahs "revealed" to Muhammad in Mecca to the later Surahs "revealed" in Medina. I would expect a "divine revelation" to be more carefully composed and have the same style from beginning to end. So for these and many other reasons I have absolutely no belief that Islam is anything more than a repackaged 7th century pagan Arabic religion. Even the name of "Allah" was used in pagan times for God. EVERY element of the "Hajj" is pre-Islamic in origin. And, in order to placate the Quryash tribe when Muhammad began to have his "revelations" he even included the "Daughters of Allah", Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat, in his earliest "revelations." This was later removed and was blamed as the "work" of "Satan." But this wasn't the only time that "revelations" changed to suit a new need. The original "Qibla" was Jerusalem, with the idea that Jews would recognize him as a true "prophet," but, when the Jews rejected his "prophethood," the "Qibla" was changed to Mecca, the "excuse" for this being some kind of "test" of Muslim faith. The only "book" that has serious and manifold differences with both the Old and New Testaments is the Qur'an. So the idea that Jews and Christians "corrupted" their own religions is simply the only way to explain these fundamental differences between Islam, which did not exist prior to the 7th century A.D., and Judaism and Christianity, which existed thousands of years earlier in the case of Judaism and centuries later in the case of Christianity. So I really don't see any need to continue this endless argument about each of our religions. In the Bible there are never any changes in divine "revelation," Prophecies are made and prophecies are fulfilled, exactly as prophesied. That is the measure of a true prophet in the Bible, and as we have seen before, Muhammad never made ANY "prophecies" at all, so why he is called a "prophet" I have no idea. I am quite content that my faith in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit together make the Holy Trinity, the true and only God. Whether you understand the concept of the Trinity is not my problem, if you want to think of it as three "gods" you are welcome to, I'm not going to try and change your mind. I guess when Judgement Day comes we will find out who was right and who was wrong, won't we? Larry Edited by Larry - 03 December 2012 at 2:52am |
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honeto
Senior Member Male Islam Joined: 20 March 2008 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 2487 |
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Larry,
can you tell me if any of that relates to what we are talking about or to the subject? How is the weather on your end by the way? LOL! Hasan Edited by honeto - 07 December 2012 at 5:42pm |
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The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62
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Empiricist
Guest Group Joined: 26 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 52 |
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I am responding to Andalus' responses. I put Empiricist before my response. They may have been responded to earlier- I did not read all the pages.
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truthfull
Groupie Joined: 09 May 2014 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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No one die for other sins, No salvation DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Salvation mean all people before jesus in hell Because of the sin That mean prophets inside hell with their killers This is impossible Pabtista john in hell with his killer Matthew 14:8 ► Parallel Verses New International Version Prompted by her mother, she said, "Give me here on a platter the head of John the Baptist." |
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truthfull
Groupie Joined: 09 May 2014 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Bible say jesus set on the right hand of god
That mean jesus is not god No one can set in his right hand It prove they are two different person Not one Since jesus confirmed he is prophet Luke 13:31 That mean he wasn't crucify Because human/prophet if die Will not return in life That prove islam God saved jesus as miracle Quran didn't deny there was crucify But quran deny that person was jesus Allah say : ( - 004:157 Maulana : And for their saying: We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah, and they killed him not, nor did they cause his death on the cross, but he was made to appear to them as such. And certainly those who differ therein are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge about it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for certain: Let's see if jews agree with quran or bible : http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M539PgDjbas Person that jews crucify was not jesus god resmbel him as jesus They thought he is jesus but he. Was not �... � he didn't answer that mean he is not jesus Mark 15 Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE) 15�As soon as it was morning, the chief priests, leaders, and the scribes talked together. They tied Jesus and took him before Pilate to be judged. 2�Pilate asked him, `Are you the King of the Jews?' Jesus answered, `Yes, I am.' 3�The chief priests brought many complaints against Jesus. 4�Then Pilate asked him, `Have you nothing to say? These people are bringing many complaints against you!' 5�But Jesus said nothing. Pilate was very much surprised about this. Read this confirming jesus Crucified as conspiracy not as salvation http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+15 According to jews law prophet should not be Crucify it is humilation They do it to prove he is not prophet That is why they don't believe in jesus Despite fact jews are waiting Massaih Barbaas talking as if crucify is penalties not salvation Luke 23:22 ► Parallel Verses New International Version For the third time he spoke to them: "Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him." What did Pilate decide ◄ Luke 23:24 ► Parallel Verses New International Version So Pilate decided to grant their demand. So he crucify Man as penalties � john 19 We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God." Son of God mean prophet Adam called as son of god Luke 3:38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the Adam was the son of God As I mentioned before jews are killer Of prophets |
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Caringheart
Senior Member Joined: 02 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 2991 |
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Edited by Caringheart - 12 May 2014 at 9:08am |
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Let us seek Truth together
Blessed be God forever "I believe in Jesus as I believe in the sun... not because I see it, but because by it, I see everything else.: - C.S.Lewis |
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iec786
Senior Member Joined: 06 February 2012 Status: Offline Points: 508 |
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Hi Caringheart,
Othere than Yshwe(known as Jesus) what deaths of prophets do you believe the Jews were responsible for? Zakariya and John the baptist. Matthew 23:37 KJV King James Version O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee iec |
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islamispeace
Senior Member Joined: 01 November 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2187 |
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Does anyone really care for Caringheart's rants anymore? Oh sorry, I got distracted... Anyway, for those with eyes to see and ears to hear, the verse in question is very clear. It simply states that the unbelievers among the Jews were sure that Jesus (pbuh) had been crucified and killed. The Quran does not elaborate on who actually did the act of crucifixion, whether the Jews or the Romans. Of course, we know that crucifixion was a Roman practice, so it makes sense that they would have been the ones to actually carry out the crucifixion. And the unbelievers among the Jews would have supported it. But that wasn't the point of the verse anyway. What it states is that the unbelievers boasted that they had killed the Prophet of God, but that they were fooled, for the Prophet of God had been raised to Allah (swt) and saved from his enemies. Alhamdulillah! As far as which prophets the Jews had killed, no names are mentioned in either the Quran or the authentic hadiths. And it doesn't matter. The New Testament also says that the Jews killed some of their prophets: "�Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, �I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.' 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary." (Luke 11:47-51) Incidentally, Matthew 23 identifies Zechariah as the son of Berakiah, though according to 2 Chronicles 24, it was Zechariah son of Jehoiada! Also, Zechariah son of Jehoiada was identified as a priest, not a prophet. |
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Say: "Truly, my prayer and my service of sacrifice, my life and my death, are (all) for Allah, the Cherisher of the Worlds. (Surat al-Anaam: 162)
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