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Seems like a false statement. Please explain.
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Ron Webb View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

God created man and therefore would know how well we could follow His Laws.
He would know generally how capable (or not) we are of following His laws, but I don't see how He can know our every action in advance.  If you assume that, then you have to reject the whole concept of free will and we become mere automatons.  Furthermore, if we are incapable of making real choices -- if all our behaviour is predetermined -- then how can we be blamed for our sins?
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Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

God created man and therefore would know how well we could follow His Laws.
He would know generally how capable (or not) we are of following His laws, but I don't see how He can know our every action in advance.  If you assume that, then you have to reject the whole concept of free will and we become mere automatons.  Furthermore, if we are incapable of making real choices -- if all our behaviour is predetermined -- then how can we be blamed for our sins?
 
If God knows what we will choose to do, how does that in any way diminish our ability to choose it?  God is not forcing us to make the choice. 
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by believer believer wrote:

LOL!!  Do you believe in only the literal shirk?
 
So some there are some people that Allah will not forgive under any condition?  for some reason unknown to us?
 
 

�Verily, Allaah forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in worship), but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He wills; and whoever sets up partners with Allaah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin� [al-Nisa� 4:48] 

�Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers� [al-Maa'idah 5:72] 
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

If God knows what we will choose to do, how does that in any way diminish our ability to choose it?  God is not forcing us to make the choice. 
If God knows what I will do in advance, then it must be determined in advance.  If it is determined in advance, then I cannot choose any other path.
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"If God knows what I will do in advance, then it must be determined in advance.  If it is determined in advance, then I cannot choose any other path."
 
Who determines it?
You are given the choice and only you can make the choice. Perhaps you yourself already know what you will choose, but that does not mean that you haven't chosen it. If you get drunk tonight and drive your car, God isn't making you do that. You are choosing to do it yourself. Because God is Omniscient He knows that you will choose to get drunk and drive, but God certainly isn't forcing you to drink or handing you the car keys.
 
Just because God knows everything, that does not take the onus off of mankind to choose the correct path. You still have free will. 
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Who determines it?
Obviously not me.  You are implying that my choices are determined even before I am born.
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Originally posted by Ron Webb Ron Webb wrote:

Originally posted by Shasta'sAunt Shasta'sAunt wrote:

Who determines it?
Obviously not me.  You are implying that my choices are determined even before I am born.
 
I am implying that God has knowledge of your existence and what paths you will choose in your lifetime. YOU still have to make those choices. 
 
If you come to a fork in the road and have to go left or right God will know which direction you will choose, but you still have to make that choice.  It is still completely up to you.
 
I think the problem you are having here is the concept of God being All-Knowing. 
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
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It it is predetermined, then it is not a choice.  The only way God could know what I will "choose" is if he has designed me in such a way, and exposed me to such external influences which have developed my character in such a way, that in a given situation there is only one possible "choice" that I can make.
 
But that's not a choice; at best it's only an illusion of choice.  The choice was actually made by God, when He designed me or exposed me to those external factors which determined my choice.  I have no more free will than an actor, cast in a role in a cosmic play whose script was written by God.


Edited by Ron Webb - 21 April 2008 at 4:48pm
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