Does everyone think they are a scholar? |
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Noah
Senior Member Joined: 25 June 2005 Status: Offline Points: 199 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 4:57pm | |||||||
Thank you, this sentence really should be enough for anyone. However.. We should look at all scriptures and if they contain contradictions, does not make sense, they are not from God, as outlined in Quran. The Quran is fur'qan, the criterion. Criterion for what? all things!
Look, the Quran is from God. Truth does not need to be verifyed or explained by ignorance.
whoah, thats a major leap'o'faith right there. IF (assuming) the Quran is law. THEN (assuming) ..must be ... The Quran IS law, and it explains itself very, very well. This is why we are constantly reminded that it is easy to learn, that we should study it intesively, that it has ALL details, that it contains ALL examples. So if the Quran is not lying about these claims, wich I assume it isnt. then what the Quran states is truth, thus it IS easy to learn, and contain everything that i need to know for my personal salvasion, and the making of a society. its all in there. Ofcourse its not visa versa. as i said. Truth needs not to be validated by lesser truths, lies, and outright ignorance.
how did you reason your way to this? I still fail to see why i should lsiten to hadith at all, now that the Quran makes it perfectly clear (by repeating) that it is for everybody, and that it is the only law and thats its easy to learn. There is even a verse that goes like this (easy to learn, cant remember its number tho ;)) "What is wrong with your judgement? Do you have another book you read?(another book than this Quran?*) Do you find in it everything you want?"
God assure us that he will preserve it, and i have posted the verses (and numbered them wrong it seems) confirming this. I take Gods word for it, i dont need to trust imam bokhari, muslim or any other guy i dont know who are, whre, or how they acted. all i know is what they have told about themself, and people singing from the same sheet. and honestly...thats just not good enough. Not as divine proof of preservation.
I disgree with the author on several points of whatever little i did read of it. I have little patience with argueing from hadith. There is no doubt that it has historical importance, and tell us a lot about what life was like FOURTEEN HUNDRED years ago, and how they implemented the Quran. How they dressed, how they urinated, how its healthy to drink camel piss when youre ill, how you should take slaves in war time, and how its ok to force them to prostitution of you just pay them a piece of cloth. And im sure it worked out fine back then (allthough i do NOT belive the prophet to have done or said any of the profanites, i simply respect him too much, and have higher thoughts of Allahs slave). But when i read the Quran, and i read it over and over, i simply cannot find any scriptural basis for the above hadiths, whatsoever. Thus, as relegious guidence, they are too flimsy, faulty and plainly ridiculous at places. And no chain of narrators can change that. Logic alone should tell yo theres something wrong. Bukhari alone colleted roughly 700.000 only 10% of those made it to his books, and we are still argueing what are genuine, and most schoolars have easily tossed 40% in the trash allready. So ...if a scripture (a book in example, like a collection of something, say....storys) contains errors, contradictions and makes no sense, they are not from God (i refer to the Quranic criterion for accepting a scripture as relegious guidence) it really IS that simple.
I completely agree
I have seen 4 and half billion different takes on how the Quran was
assembled, written by scribes, written by mohammad (pbuh). To be
perfectly honest. i do not care a single bit if it fell of the
moon and hit mohammad on the head. I have read it, i understand what it
wants me to do, and i obey, no questions asked. Im not going to argue
with God. (but i will take on the scholars, no prob, they arent
infallible or God send. they are humans with the same capacity and
senses as me) May Allah show us all the way to truth, where ever or what ever it may be. Peace Edited by Noah |
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Jenni
Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 6:00pm | |||||||
I agree with Noah, I mean come on lets use commen sence. And no one has
explained to me my previous discprepencies about Adam and Eve. In the
Quran the explenation is different for how eve was created than in the
Hadith. No one has ever given me an answer for this!!!
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You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 7:36pm | |||||||
O my dear brother Noah, great respect for your ideas and comments about Quran, but one can't ignore the history of Islam, good or bad, both. This doesn't mean that you have to wear the monocle of hadith to read Quran or to understand its general meaning. However, there are still numerous topics that have been alluded in Quran and their full understanding (or you can say as how to implement) comes from authentic ahadith. Islam deals with complete system of human life, from its fromation of a society to its individual members. Hence, if Quran provides constitution for a society, then sunnah forms the guidelines to implement this constitution in the form of a law. And if Quran provides a law, then sunnah provides the guidelines as how to implement the law (I am using "if" as an anology for presenting the examples). In any case, its not the vice versa. Your respect for Quran is true at its own merit, however, authentic (I repeat authentic) sunnah must not be down graded as well from their own stature. Now coming to historic value of Islamic manuscripts, have you ever realised how important these are? The website that I referred you, provides evidence of assurance (through human intellect) that the copy of Quran that we are holding now in our hands, is same ditto as was revealed on Prophet Mohammad. In the absence of which, how do you claim its preservation other than from Quran itself? Think for a while, hopefully, you will get the answer yourself. It is this promise of Allah, through which Quran has survived the tides of history, otherwise, for history there is no exception. May Allah give all of wisdom to use logic for all our matters. Amin. |
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Jenni
Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705 |
Posted: 27 July 2005 at 6:48am | |||||||
Hello!!!!!!!!!! Eve in the Quran and Eve in the Hadith as I previously
asked? Anyone want to take a stab at it or you guys are going to ignore
it. The story is different how Eve(ADAMS wife) was created in the Quran
and in Hadiths it gives the christian biblical version!!
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You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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Noah
Senior Member Joined: 25 June 2005 Status: Offline Points: 199 |
Posted: 27 July 2005 at 7:40am | |||||||
ummziba
Senior Member Female Joined: 16 March 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1158 |
Posted: 27 July 2005 at 8:15am | |||||||
Assalamu alaikum, Just an interesting, though possibly relevent aside: It is scientific fact that all human fetus' are female. The mutant Y chromosome later starts a reaction that turns just under half of these into males. It is females who grow and give birth to our young. Why then would Allah make Eve from Adam, would this not be backwards? Does the Qur'an not say that Allah made a female soul and it's mate from it? Peace, ummziba. |
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Sticks and stones may break my bones, but your words...they break my soul ~
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Jenni
Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705 |
Posted: 27 July 2005 at 3:42pm | |||||||
Ummziba, I allways like your contributions. Peace
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You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
Posted: 27 July 2005 at 6:15pm | |||||||
Bro Noah, this book is lacking authenticity and doesn't represent a scholarly researched writting. Picking up Quranic verses from here and there to negate sunnah is not at all a wise approach. We all know it took Quran almost 23 years to reveal, without reading it in its proper historical context to falsify ahadith, is thus, a big falacy. Hence, it is the work of none other than people like Saint Apple Pie and company. May Allah provide us true guidance in our endeavor for the right direction. Amin. |
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