Does everyone think they are a scholar? |
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Jenni
Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 6:00pm | |||||||
I agree with Noah, I mean come on lets use commen sence. And no one has
explained to me my previous discprepencies about Adam and Eve. In the
Quran the explenation is different for how eve was created than in the
Hadith. No one has ever given me an answer for this!!!
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You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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Noah
Senior Member Joined: 25 June 2005 Status: Offline Points: 199 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 4:57pm | |||||||
Thank you, this sentence really should be enough for anyone. However.. We should look at all scriptures and if they contain contradictions, does not make sense, they are not from God, as outlined in Quran. The Quran is fur'qan, the criterion. Criterion for what? all things!
Look, the Quran is from God. Truth does not need to be verifyed or explained by ignorance.
whoah, thats a major leap'o'faith right there. IF (assuming) the Quran is law. THEN (assuming) ..must be ... The Quran IS law, and it explains itself very, very well. This is why we are constantly reminded that it is easy to learn, that we should study it intesively, that it has ALL details, that it contains ALL examples. So if the Quran is not lying about these claims, wich I assume it isnt. then what the Quran states is truth, thus it IS easy to learn, and contain everything that i need to know for my personal salvasion, and the making of a society. its all in there. Ofcourse its not visa versa. as i said. Truth needs not to be validated by lesser truths, lies, and outright ignorance.
how did you reason your way to this? I still fail to see why i should lsiten to hadith at all, now that the Quran makes it perfectly clear (by repeating) that it is for everybody, and that it is the only law and thats its easy to learn. There is even a verse that goes like this (easy to learn, cant remember its number tho ;)) "What is wrong with your judgement? Do you have another book you read?(another book than this Quran?*) Do you find in it everything you want?"
God assure us that he will preserve it, and i have posted the verses (and numbered them wrong it seems) confirming this. I take Gods word for it, i dont need to trust imam bokhari, muslim or any other guy i dont know who are, whre, or how they acted. all i know is what they have told about themself, and people singing from the same sheet. and honestly...thats just not good enough. Not as divine proof of preservation.
I disgree with the author on several points of whatever little i did read of it. I have little patience with argueing from hadith. There is no doubt that it has historical importance, and tell us a lot about what life was like FOURTEEN HUNDRED years ago, and how they implemented the Quran. How they dressed, how they urinated, how its healthy to drink camel piss when youre ill, how you should take slaves in war time, and how its ok to force them to prostitution of you just pay them a piece of cloth. And im sure it worked out fine back then (allthough i do NOT belive the prophet to have done or said any of the profanites, i simply respect him too much, and have higher thoughts of Allahs slave). But when i read the Quran, and i read it over and over, i simply cannot find any scriptural basis for the above hadiths, whatsoever. Thus, as relegious guidence, they are too flimsy, faulty and plainly ridiculous at places. And no chain of narrators can change that. Logic alone should tell yo theres something wrong. Bukhari alone colleted roughly 700.000 only 10% of those made it to his books, and we are still argueing what are genuine, and most schoolars have easily tossed 40% in the trash allready. So ...if a scripture (a book in example, like a collection of something, say....storys) contains errors, contradictions and makes no sense, they are not from God (i refer to the Quranic criterion for accepting a scripture as relegious guidence) it really IS that simple.
I completely agree
I have seen 4 and half billion different takes on how the Quran was
assembled, written by scribes, written by mohammad (pbuh). To be
perfectly honest. i do not care a single bit if it fell of the
moon and hit mohammad on the head. I have read it, i understand what it
wants me to do, and i obey, no questions asked. Im not going to argue
with God. (but i will take on the scholars, no prob, they arent
infallible or God send. they are humans with the same capacity and
senses as me) May Allah show us all the way to truth, where ever or what ever it may be. Peace Edited by Noah |
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AhmadJoyia
Senior Member Joined: 20 March 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1647 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 4:14pm | |||||||
My I chip in a little bit on this "off topic" gossip! For Quran, no one needs to go any where for its authenticity. however, this is not true for Ahadith. Isn't it? In the same token, if Quran is law, then authentic sunnah are the explanation of the law but not the vice versa. However, then sunnah play another vital role and that is the history associated with it. Usually people of other faith play down Quran as a book of faith, it is the well documented ahadith with their complete chain of narration, that provides un-deniable authenticity to the Quran and hence its preservation. Think a little bit more on this when you read about the process of preservation of Quran through the link provided below. It is therefore imperative for all of us to recognise the importance of both of them at their own level. One more thing that I may like to correct to someone who mentioned about writing down of Quran in the time of Hazrat Usman from oral traditon. This is not true. The fact is that whole of the Quran, as it used to be revealed, was aptly written down by the specially appointed scribes of our beloved Prophet. At the same time, given the importance of sunnah, some people also started writting down the Ahadith along with the Quran, to which our Prohet strictly forbidden this practice for not confusing the two sources togather. Hence, kept a special care of writting down of the Quran. When the Quran was completely revealed, its proper order of sequence of verses relative to each other for compilation was also duly dictated by the Prophet. For complete and detailed information, kindly see http://www.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/ulum_al_qura n/index.htm Indeed Allah knows the best. |
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Jenni
Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 1:29pm | |||||||
MI4real-I am not saying that I don't believe any Hadith are true, I am
saying if it has a condratictory nature to the Koran, how can you
accept it? Which is more holy to you the Quran or Hadiths. The Quran is
the word of God, the Hadiths rely on the heresay of men, which are not
that relaible. I don't care which scolar says what. I do not have to
accept the Hadiths as 100% true to be a Muslim. This is not one of the
five pillars. You did not explain the discrepancy of the Hadiths I
previously mentioned. I am asking you for a real explenation.
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You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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herjihad
Senior Member Joined: 26 January 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2473 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 12:09pm | |||||||
Bismillah, I agree with Noah and Jenni that the Qur'an is promised to be protected, and the hadeeth are not. The Qur'an was memorized by a thousand people and recorded by mutual consensus in Othmaan's time because of a major battle in which many people who had memorized the Holy Qur'an were killed. It was seen as expedient to have a consensual compilation among those who had it memorized. This did not happen with hadith. |
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Al-Hamdulillah (From a Married Muslimah) La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah - There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
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Noah
Senior Member Joined: 25 June 2005 Status: Offline Points: 199 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 12:01pm | |||||||
peace
You are free to belive what you want to, but i will just take Gods word for it. Im sure he knows what he is talking about.
this is reversed logic. I fully accept the Quran as the infallible word and guidence from God. I know, because this book is theonly thing in the world that makes me cry out of pure humility to sho is speaking through this mighty medium. Hadith...well. gives me nothing but a headache, and from years of research into occultism, esoteric relegious philosphies i can spot paganism in any scripture a mile away. Peace Noah Edited by Noah |
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Mi4real
Starter Joined: 13 October 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 11:21am | |||||||
but then how can you guarantee that the Qur`an is protected since the Holy Qur`an is tawatur and so are some hadiths, if you reject hadiths then you must also reject the Qur`an secondly it is the IJMA (Concious of the Ulema (Scholars) that those who are hadith rejecters are automatically declared kafir, I would sincerely advise you to study the Sciences of Ilm Al-Rijal and Ilm Al-Hadith before you formulate your own opinions withour doing your research correctly. but the Quraan orders us to follow the prophet, for example: Allah Ta'alaa tells the Rasool Sallallaahu `alyhi wa sallam to "warn those who appose your order" that they will fall into tribulation or great punishment {soorat un noor ayah 63} ������ ������ ������� �� ���� �� ������ ���� �� ������ ���� ����
�� �� ���� ����� ���� ��������� ������ ����
The meaning of the words hadith and sunnah 85:17.. Hal ataka hadeethu aljunoodi 85:17 Hath there come unto thee the story of the hosts
88:1. Hal ataka hadeethu alghashiyati 88:1. Hath there come unto thee tidings of the Overwhelming ?
20:9. Wahal ataka hadeethu moosa 20:9. Hath there come unto thee the story of Moses ?
I would strongly advise you read The authority of the sunnah:
( http://ccminc.faithweb.com/iqra/articles/authsun/ ) Chapter 1: Sunnah: The Second Source of Islamic Law http://ccminc.faithweb.com/iqra/art...hsun/chap1.html Chapter 2: The Scope of the Prophetic Authority http://ccminc.faithweb.com/iqra/art...hsun/chap2.html Chapter 3: The Authenticity of the Sunnah: Its Historical Aspect http://ccminc.faithweb.com/iqra/art...hsun/chap3.html ---------------- Part A - Introduction Part B - The General Probativeness of the Sunna Part C - Proofs for the Probativeness of the Sunna Part D - Allah's Approval of the Companions' Conformity with the Sunna Part E - Proofs from the Noble Qur'an For the Probativeness of the Sunna Part F - Proofs from the Noble Qur'an For the Probativeness of the Sunna (cont.) Part G - Recapitulation: So far posted material Part H - Proofs from the Noble Sunna for the Probativeness of the Sunna Part I - Proofs from the Noble Sunna (cont.) Part J - Proofs from the Noble Sunna (cont.) Part K - Proofs from the Noble Sunna (cont.) Part L - Proofs from the Noble Sunna (end) Part M - It is Unfeasible to Act Solely on the Basis of the Qur'an Information about the submitter-sect... SUBMITTERS INTERNATIONAL http://212.67.202.62/%7Esecurity/ht...&id=34&Itemid= 2 http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/c...ubmit_trick.htm http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/c...ubmit_refut.htm http://www.islamic-paths.org/Home/E.../Refutation.htm www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/submit.htm www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/#submitters www.themodernreligion.com/anti_muslim_main.htm A refutation to the 'Submitters' http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/c...ubmit_refut.htm Islam = Qur'an + Sunnah http://www.islamicweb.com/beliefs/c...uran_sunnah.htm Answering Hadith Rejectors http://www.themodernreligion.com/mi...hrejectors.html Lastly the hadiths which you find disturbing try reading the commentary on the hadiths, have you tried reading the Arabic original? or how about asking a Scholar to explain the hadith to you?
The hadith system for Ahl-As-Sunnah has been relied upon for 1500 years, it is only now deviants groups are spreading fitnah and confusing the ordinary layman.
May Allah guide those who wish to misguide the masses.
Ameen Rabil Ala`meen. |
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Jenni
Senior Member Joined: 10 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 705 |
Posted: 26 July 2005 at 10:50am | |||||||
Mi4real, you can not gaurantee the Hadiths are protected. There is one
for example that says Eve was created from adams rib(like in the bible)
and in the Quran that is not what is said. Also in the hadith there are
many that are degrading to women, while I do not find this in the
quran. There is one that says women are defiecient in intelligence
while this is proven not to be true scientifically without a doubt. Now
in many countries girls are outscoring boys in many fields like law,
medicine ect. So explain that to me. Some hadiths are illogical while
the Quran is not!!
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You cant be a good muslim if you are not decent and have a cold heart. Be a decent and kind person and care for women and children and the elderly.
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