|
Jesus� new commandment |
Post Reply 
|
Page 123 28> |
| Author | ||
peacemaker 
Moderator Group 
Male Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Jesus� new commandmentPosted: 06 November 2008 at 10:55am |
|
|
Everyone,
Please stick to the topic and comply with the section and the forum rules. Please do understand that not complying with forum guidelines may result in one's suspension or even ban.
|
||
|
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13 |
||
 |
||
|
Gulliver
Senior Member 
Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 November 2008 at 8:36am |
|
|
"a female cannot be given in marriage without her consent, and she must be old enough to understand what that consent means and what marriage would entail. "
I wonder if most women knew what marriage really entailed fore they took the plunge, if they'd marry at all Shasta. They'd run like the hammers. As the saying goes, "marry in haste, repent at leisure."
I am NOT talking bout Muhammad or Aisha here.
Have given up on that one for now.
|
||
|
||
|
Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member
Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 06 November 2008 at 7:19am |
|
I'm not assuming anything, I am merely stating that given contradictory evidence we just don't know for sure. Even within the Hadith her age varies. What I am saying is that not alot of records were kept and Aisha's age was obviously not of tantamount importance at the time.
What we do know is that she had already been betrothed once before the Prophet. We know that Islamically a female cannot be given in marriage without her consent, and she must be old enough to understand what that consent means and what marriage would entail.
|
||
|
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
||
|
||
|
Ron Webb
Senior Member
Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 November 2008 at 5:19pm |
|
 I don't understand your point, or the point of this article. Are you saying that the Bukhari hadith (which clearly state that she was six when she was married and nine when the marriage was consummated) are not to be trusted? Why would you assume that the hadith are wrong, but the other sources are right? |
||
|
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
|
||
|
||
|
Gulliver
Senior Member
Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 November 2008 at 5:56am |
|
|
"Modesty? Even as late as the Middle Ages there were rarely separate bedrooms for adults and children, even among the nobility. There was little need for sex education -- children learned by direct observation. Need I say more?"
I was referring to Muslim society there Ron. Maybe they were all at it like dogs in front of their children from day one. Dunno.
People today can expect to live two or three times longer than they did a thousand years ago. Wouldn't you live your life on a radically different schedule if you were "middle aged" in your early twenties?
Maybe. I wish I could live it wholly day to day, and not worry whether I was gonna live ten or one hundred years.
The 'concept' of 'childhood' only developed in Victorian times ?
Not so sure about that one Ron. I need to read some more. The OT does talk about 'God' nurturing and protecting like a mother hen. Kinda sounds like 'childhood' to me. And the relationship of the individual with God as Father, is one of a child cared for, nurtured and protected by a loving parent. Though as 'children' - we are thrown into a hellish realm to grow up pretty fast it seems, in this lil ol world. So you could argue it either way there too I suppose.
When I ask, "what has changed ?" What I am getting at is that IF it is considered today, to be harmful to very young people/children to marry them off, have them bear children, and shove them down coalmines - why is that ? Why wasn't it always considered that way, especially by those with a direct link with the Creator ? Why have our attituded, beliefs changed on these matters, and do we 'know better' than they did in the past. IF that were the case - why didn't someone speaking for God make that clear too ? Not just Muhammad - any of 'em.
I see and understand what you are all saying. Course I do. Just wondering about those speaking on behalf of God.
And the good doc would seem to imply that we don't judge the past by today's standards. So why judge certain things today by the standards and ignorances of the past ? Which fundamentalist religious nutters believe they are divinely inspired and sanctioned to do.
It's interesting. One is learning - despite the frustrations I can see you're having in getting your points of view across ;-) lol
God bless
|
||
|
||
|
Gulliver
Senior Member
Joined: 12 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 621 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 November 2008 at 5:22am |
|
|
Interesting Shasta. Thank you for the references and feedback here. I do appreciate all of it - even I am not the most patient at times.
I'd LOVE to know who Jesus truly was/is. And same for Muhammad. Maybe one day.
You all gotta admit - there is soooooooo much 'stuff' out there to wade through - it would completely fry your brain. Leaves me I just want to not bother looking anymore and stick to my simple faith and belief in God. Edited by Gulliver - 04 November 2008 at 6:11am |
||
|
||
|
Hayfa
Senior Member
Female Joined: 07 June 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2368 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 November 2008 at 5:13am |
|
|
People all over the world still marry young, as Ron pointed out, its about life span. People who only live on average to 50-60, marry young. Children also work, or expected to contribute as soon as possible. And still in many places people marry younger. Its the cycle of life
They also still live in one room or such. How much kids "learn" no idea.
|
||
|
When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
|
||
|
||
|
Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member
Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 November 2008 at 5:11am |
|
|
"You don't see the big deal with Aisha's age Shasta. A man in his fifties and a 6 come 9 year old child. Juliet was around 13 too. But at least Romeo was of a similar age - 15. Wherefore art thou Romeo ?" Where did I state it was not a big deal? I stated that no-one really knows Aisha age, and even though she was undoubtedly young by today's standards 2000-1400 years ago things were clearly different. Not just within Islam but within Judaism and Christianity.
Believer: If Joseph were just 20 years old at the time he married Mary and he was already a widower with other children then how old would he and his first wife have been when they married?
|
||
|
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
||
|
||
|
Post Reply
|
Page 123 28> |
Tweet
|
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
Ron Webb wrote: