Information about the tawhid

poga wrote: Warriorofelyon wrote: Hello, I am writing a Master's thesis discussing the Islamic view of God. This includes a discussion of the Christian understanding of the Trinity compared to how Muslim theologians understand it. I would like to be as fair and accurate as possible. Would anyone have any suggestions regarding Islamic texts that could be used the represent the Asharite theological school? Thanks! to understand the singularity or duality or trinity or what ever first you need to learn about the setting and ISHALLAH in this one poem you will learn more about the settings of creation then all the man made books of world put together  so i will take you step by step so ask me when you need SWEETSWORDS 108 [ Elemental Setting of for Foe ] BISMILLAH 3 - 2 - 1 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 5 + 8 Poga Humayun Dundiwala Setting is thus Still mountainous terrain moving Forrest and removal ass They move on From innate to intuition Intuition to intelligence And intelligence to illumination This are only four stages out of eight In Huma's singular domain with eight Illuminati gate The station the traveler and the rail Earthly station traveling plants and the animal mail In this trinity driver makes four For journey of stages and the marrifatic tour The tour de force The knowledge of epistemological models of ilm e course The course is as in sequence of the food for thought In the science of plus and minus and naught and dot Poga Say's in a Foolington Maze Fitrath of innate idols And the nafs of ambitious idolater Aql of intelligent mental patient And wisdom of spiritual doctor Fitrath of innate idols and nature of mud Nafs and desire of plant and bud Aql of intelligence butterfly And Ruh of spiritual beekeeper In the science of wisdom And in the signs of nature Fitrath nafs and aql and ruh Your innate nature intuitive desire  intelligent mind and spiritual you Now who am i and where do fit in I am your heartache the hidden unseen Fitrath nafs aql and ruh Me and you he and who All individual yet unified in aim In different stages and in different name All in one and one in all As mighty in tiny as great in small

Poga, you have already responded to the post once before. This is a discussion forum, and not a potery section. Occasional poetry is ok, but you are filling the threads with your poetry, and sometimes you are replying to the same post twice with more poetry. This is borderline, "spaming". I have had several complaints about your posts. I for one find it more difficult to keep track of threads when you begin to paste your poetry into the discussion. It is borderline "disruption". People do not know half the time if you are insulting them or if you are aware of what the topic is about. Try and keep the poetry to a minimum. 

Poga, you have already responded to the post once before. This is a discussion forum, and not a potery section. Occasional poetry is ok, but you are filling the threads with your poetry, and sometimes you are replying to the same post twice with more poetry. This is borderline, "spaming". I have had several complaints about your posts. I for one find it more difficult to keep track of threads when you begin to paste your poetry into the discussion. It is borderline "disruption". People do not know half the time if you are insulting them or if you are aware of what the topic is about. Try and keep the poetry to a minimum.

dear ANDALUS this poem will answer about tri-nity and four-nity and five-nity in great detail please bear with me

with the first post i mentioned trin-ity in nature

with second post i mentioned four-nity in creation

for this just one poem i went through at-least 10000 books to collect the data

 

 

Mr Barzakh Fitrath Ullah  : Between mud meat and wood
A man in flesh declares i am above rest in prostration's SAJUD
he speaks to god lying sitting standing and at work
He creates sign of sajud and stigmata mark
Oh BE AQL look at a dog
Have seen him doing Yog or Jog
When lying he is rolling reeling
When sitting he is resting and crawling
When standing he run jump and bark
But you will never see him in prostration to achieve the Sajud mark
It is the station of FITRATH NAFS AQL AND RUH
That's distinguish what is what and who is who
Don't you see the way of mud
It too has fire air and watery blood
But essence that predominates his character is his Fitrathullah clay
It doesn't have any desire to run and play
Then life that evolved is Nafsi vegetation
Yet it doesn't have any desire for psychiatric session
It too was created with earth water fire and air
Yet only thing they desire is theirs botanical heir
Yet they protect not theirs progeny at sight of stranger
Have seen burning forest where stationary tree running away from danger
Who do you see fight to kill theirs sibling in love and war
Who else apart from animal Sansar
Who uses theirs mind OH BE AQL
In Mud Wood and Animal
Who else but animal crane
Dies for beloved in separation pain
But have seen any silent giraffe or laughing hyena
Doing the meditation by Yogic Ashana
This are quality's of men what sets them apart from rest of the creation
You see OH BE AQL it is not the Bodi tree but it is the Buddha who does the meditation
All animal have mind but it is the men who holds the RUH
All animal makes the migration but it is the men who wears the shoe
Have seen any monkey going for Nike or spider in need of a needle
No OH BE AQL but it is only the men who can web just with binding words the most enticing riddle

from SWEETSWORDS 108 [ The Elemental Setting of Four Foe ]

Edited by poga

Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem

1. Why do you personally reject the notion of the triune God?

God has certain attributes which if true means that he will never behave in a certain way even though it is within his power to do so.

We know He is the merciful the forgiver but at the same time he is the Just and the Punisher, so if he is merciful and the forgiver of sins does that mean he will now forgive every criminal there sins, becouse to not do so would now imply that in effect he is not being the merciful or the fogiving.

The correct perspective to understand this matter is to see that he is the merciful and the forgiver but at the same time he is the just and the punisher he isnt one or the other but all at the same time at all times. He forgives people there sins but punishes those he decides to punish in his wisdom [as he is the wise] and his knowledge [as he is the knowledgeable all knowing] and the just [so those he decides to punish he does so justly].

So when you look at his attributes he isnt one OR the other but all at the same time.

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3882& ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;PN=4

From his atributes we know he is The Sovereign, The Holy, The Flawless just to name a few for the purpose of this reply.

Now the trinity consists of three things, God the Holy spirit and Jesus. According to the king james Bible God Beget a son with marry the holy mother through the holy spirit.

God sacrificed his only son in order to forgive the sins of man.

jesus walked this earth as a normal human being would.

Regarding the above points these acts go against his attribute and nature of being The Sovereign [the quality of being independent of all existing things] he was not in need of manifesting himself in this world by virtue of child labor and birth he was not limited by the way in which he forgave sins i.e he was not in Need of a sacrifice he is independent of needing anything he acts based upon knowledge, wisdom and understanding as having a need means being subservient and reliant on whatever fulfills that need, all of which contradict the following attributes The Flawless and The Holy.

We know Allah can do what ever he likes, if he so chose he could manifest himself in a triune state and choose to only forgive our sins after sacrificing himself on the cross. If the last two attributes where true of him i.e his having been The Flawless [Allah's quality of lacking all imperfection or any trace of deficiency.] and The Holy [Allah's quality of being above every description of which human perception can perceive.] then this is not an act he would choose to do.

Why dont we ever say God [authubillah] is a murderer or he tortures people or he steals from them tricks them, manipulates them and is sadistic....Its becouse we know he possesses the noblest of Qualities which declare him above such behavior. Similarly these attribute tell us the he will never decide to manifest himself in a triune state by way of child labor and walk on this earth as humans do with all there weaknesses and imperfections which are clearly stated in the bible and can not be attributed to God in his perfectness or Crucify himself so he could forgive our sins.

Al-`Al�: The Highest

"Glorify the name of your Lord the Highest (Al-`Al�)" (87:1).

The Highest is that quality above which there is no rank. All the other ranks are inferior to the Highest. The Highest refers to height. Height refers to the concept of elevation. Elevation is the opposite of lowness. It may be conceived in terms of perceptible height or level or in terms of some sort of rational order. Everything that can be described as being "above" in respect of space possesses spatial highness and everything that can be described as being "above" in terms of rank may be said to have a highness exceeding all others.

The idea of the trinity contradicts Gods very attributes and as br Andalus has pointed out since it is all a matter of inteprating certain verses in the bible as there is no clear declaration of the trinity ever existing then men have fallen far short of understanding God's perfectness, uniqueness, Greatness, Majesty and exaltedness and themselves have attributed weakness and imperfection to him.

Sura Al Falaq [112] in the Quran affirms this.

Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him.

If you notice he has indicated which attributes we should think about to understand why he will never decide to manifest himself in a triune state.


2. How do you understand the concept of the Trinity? That is how would you describe it?

The trinity as i understand it is the manifestation of God in three seperate beings at the same time all interacting with one another as if independent from each other but in reality they are not.

Two of these beings jesus and the holy siprit where God and limited at the same time, a contradiction in terms.



Edited by rami

Thanks everyone! I Found your information/objections quite helpful!

I would say that there still seems to be a great deal of misunderstanding regarding what the Trinity is...etc...

I realize this forum is not designed for debate and therefore I would not violate the rules nor disrespect this community by attempting to reply to any statements. With that said, if anyone would like to discuss further what I embrace the notion of a triune God please feel free to contact me.

Also, if you would be willing to read some of my tracing of history regarding trinitarian theology and my philosophical description of the trinity please feel free to contact me as well.

My e-mail is [email protected]

ONE LAST QUESTION...

I am attempting to show some of the similarities between the Allah of the Qur'an and the Allah (in the Arabic Christian sense) of the bible.

So would you all say it is fair to say...based upon the 99 beautiful names...

That just like the God of the bible...Allah is...

LOVE
HOLY
MERCIFUL
COMPASSIONATE...

The God of the Bible is literally describe as ontologically LOVE...

Would it be fair to describe Allah the same way??