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Female Circumcision

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2008 at 8:18am

To me cutting off a piece of human flesh is mutilation to me and yes I think the same about men too. It may be either major or minor in the sense but cutting off something that developed on your body natural is an unnatural act of modifying yourself whether its for the purpose of religion or not. Now, with respect to your assertion that alonger clitoris equals a greater libido again is simply wrong. The libido vaaries from woman to woman regardless the structure of the clitoral area. This is what we've been trying to tell you.

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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2008 at 8:43am
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

I was just thinking women who had a longer clitoris perhaps had an excess libido and had no way of letting go their yearnings or lusts as in unmarried women or widows. And how to avoid fornication if these excesses are not met?

Nur,

Did you read my post at all?  The CLITORIS has nothing to do with Lust.  If you understood anything about biology (which is different than being uneducated, I know very little about Geology and I have 7 years of college and speak 2 languages with a smattering of 2 more) then you would understand what we are trying to tell you.

Lust comes from hormones, hormones are chemical secretions.  The clitoris does not make any hormones.  So reducing the clitoris is not going to reduce desire.  This is the part that you are uneducated about, a person can be educated about many things but competely ignorant of others. 

You keep missing the point and the argument you keep using if false. 

Do you know how affecting the clitoris affects desire....by pain?  If it hurts, or if you can't enjoy it, then you aren't going to want to do it.  And that would include the woman after marriage.  And, sadly, if she's chaste she's not going to find out the effects until her wedding night, which is already painful enough. 

If you want to curb desire in a woman you would need to mess with her hormones, then you risk causing infertility.

Here's a news flash.  God created us.  In the Bible, its says he created us man and woman.  His first commandment to Adam and Eve was to go forth and replenish the world as man and wife.  If there was a real benefit to not having a clitoral hood or to having the clitoris removed, we would not have one.

The problem with promiscuity today cannot be solved by holding women down and butchering their privates.  What about the promiscuous boys?  Many non-Muslim/non-Jewish boys are circumcised.  It doesn't affect their purity.  What are you going to do to them? 

The answer to the promiscuity of boys and girls is not cutting anything off.  Its teaching them right from wrong and being examples.

There were many things that happen that people argue are Islamic and in fact have no basis in Islam.  The practice of Purdah is one of them.  Considering there is no "P" in the Arabic language this is something that was absorbed when Islam met Hinduism. 

Northern African Christian groups practice this same kind of butchery.  It was a Northern African practice that was kept by the tribes as they converted to other religions.  Its a practice borne from a culture that had no understanding of cellular biology, endocrinology and gynocology. 

Lust is a product of so much more than mere stimulation of one small part of the body.  Go read up on the subject of all the research.  Michelle M. Wirth and Oliver C. Schultheiss, University of Michigan, Department of Psychology have found that outside stimulus increase the production of progesterone in women that induces arousal.  You can buy testoterone creams and progesterone creams to help women with sexual dysfunction.  Therefore, reducing the clitoris is not going to impact this, except that the state of arousal becomes uncomfortable because you've removed/damaged their ability to find pleasure in their arousal.  How is this beneficial? 

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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2008 at 7:36pm

This subject perhaps need some further scientific reaserch from an unbiased source.

As this practise is quite common among the Muslims for more than 1400 years, even though it is non-obligatory, I still believe there is some benefits to it. If there is harm or no benefits whatsoever, this practise will die a natural death.

To me it is a shield or protection (triple protection) against promiscuity, fornication. Other than having faith in God - Amar makruf nahi munkar (encourage what is good and forbid evil), putting on hijab. fasting = this practise will also reduce the chances of fornication.

No doubt there are those who had been circumcised, male or female, but most importantly, it is their faith that is not strong, if their eeman is fragile, what other sheilds or protection is being used, it is useless for them.

And for muslmahs who had not been circumcised, please remember this is a non-obligatory act. We could never know all the secrets that Allah have in this world and the hereafter. Hold on tightly to your faith and increase your iman with worship of Allah, InshaAllah, whatever obstacles that you face, remember He is Al-Raheem - Most Merciful.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 February 2008 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

As this practise is quite common among the Muslims for more than 1400 years, even though it is non-obligatory,

Where are you getting that its islamic? just becaue some muslims practice this, does not make it islamic.

Where are you getting that its non-obligatory in islam?

Quote I still believe there is some benefits to it.

where is your resources that its of some benefit? other then telling us that its protection in curbing promisciuty etc.

How is it any benefit when you get married? How is the husband going to feel? what benefit is it to him!?

While you go out and cut a bit of the clitoris to curb bad behaviour - what effects is this going to have when you are married?

You seem to have all the answers please answer these questions.

Quote If there is harm or no benefits whatsoever, this practise will die a natural death.

Not everything that is harmful or of no benefit dies a natural death always.

Quote To me it is a shield or protection (triple protection) against promiscuity, fornication.

People are telling you its no protection there is hormones at play to! I suppose you would like to drain the body of hormones too to give a furthur protection, heck get rid of the brain to since that is the biggest sex organ 

Quote And for muslmahs who had not been circumcised, please remember this is a non-obligatory act.

please give where this is in islam, quran or hadiths or other. You cannot just say this without some kind of evidence. 

~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2008 at 12:04am

Hi Angel,

I am a bit frightened by your anger.

As an answer, here is a link for your perusal.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamO nline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=111950354388 6

Salam.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Angel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 February 2008 at 1:32am
I'm not angry  i guess it was a bit too straight forward. sorry 

Edited by Angel
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 6:02am

By apologising here, you have shown that you deserve your name.

Salam.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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martha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2008 at 8:14am

Angela, I agree with your comment ' If there was a real benefit to not having a clitoral hood or to having the clitoris removed, we would not have one.'

Back in the Prophets day(pbuH) maybe it was a fashion thing as opposed to a religious one. Who really knows. We know that he neither condoned or condemned this act.

The clitoris is sensitive, so needs the covering. Allah made women this way, to have the clitoral hood. I dont need any other explanation. Fornication, adultery will happen when the mind is distracted. We have to become masters of our own self, not chop bits and pieces off because we think it will change our sexual urges. This kind of practice seems more fitting to voodoo worship than anything else. Or maybe it's just a practice that men introduced to give them more arousal when their private parts touches a womans. The only way to know is to ask a man who has had sex with both kinds of woman, one with a hood, one without.

some of us are a lot like cement:- all mixed up and permanently set
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