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Female Circumcision

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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 January 2008 at 7:34am

Assalamualaikum.

Dear Sisters,

 

I believe you all have heard of male circumcision, however have you heard of female circumcision in Islam? I mean the Islamic way? Not the cruel way of how some of the African women did on themselves, but the Muslim way.

 

We, women in my community, most of us had it, but it was done to us out of blind faith. The parents said so, so we had to do it.

In fact when my daughter was just a few days old, the old midwife did it herself. It was simple and fast and my little baby did not cry at all.

 

Only lately, perhaps a year so ago that I read about the hikmah or wisdom behind these practice. MashaAllah! After knowing the wisdom behind it, what should I say but Allah Really Knows Best. He is indeed Al-Aleem.

Here is a link for those who wants to find more about it.

 

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=427&ln=eng&txt= female%20circumcision

http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ln=eng&ds=qa&lv=bro wse&QR=45528

 

Till next time, Salam.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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minuteman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minuteman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2008 at 10:00am

 

 I have not seen or visited the sites. I do not find any example of female circumcision. Hazrat Ibraheem was told to circumsize all the male children. So it is done. I do not know if in Arabia, at the time of the prophet s.a.w.s. there was any such practice to circumcise the females. If there was no such thing then I would say that it is all a bad practice and nothing to do with the religion.

 But let other friends speak about it.

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Aminah07 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aminah07 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2008 at 11:00am

ASA Sr,

I have heard of it and know some sr's that have had it done like your daughter in infancy. In Egypt many women have had it done but in my husbands village most stopped this practice around my generation 30' almost 40' something years ago.

Mash'Allah nice links very informative. As many things for sr's it is considered an honor but not obligatory.

The one sr' from the states that I know that had it done in infancy experienced painful childbirth with all of her children. Not that we don't all experience painful childbirth with/without it but hers was extreme. I don't know if that is the case with all women in this situation but she did grow up in an Islamic country.

 

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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2008 at 11:03am

 Not the cruel way of how some of the African women did on themselves....

Why is female circumcision suddenly African? Arabs, Pakis Afghans are known to have done such practices.

I still don't think bodily wise, why females have to do it regardless whether the procedure is painless or not.

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Hayfa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hayfa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2008 at 12:02pm


In this matter, it is wise to follow the interests of the female: if the clitoris is large, then part of it should be removed, otherwise it should be left alone. This size of the clitoris will vary from woman to woman, and there may be differences between those from hot climates and those from cold climates

How does one know if the clitoris is too "arge" exactly what does that mean?

And how do you know how to be so precise without proper surgical instruments.. on a baby it must be quite small..

Circumcision reduces excessive sensitivity of the clitoris which may cause it to increase in size to 3 centimeters when aroused, which is very annoying to the husband, especially at the time of intercourse. 

How will you know at birth that this will or will not happen and then some men won't like it?

Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire. 

Now this is interesting. First of all.. what is excessive? Since any relationship is a balance.. and many women are just not that interested... not sure I have hear about too many women having "excessive" desire. Hack, half the time the women don't want sex and the men do..

I am not questioning the hadith.. but the other points of view given. I wish there were more science based studies to support their ideas. You'd have to study women in both categories-circumcised and noncircumsized women.

 

When you do things from your soul, you feel a river moving in you, a joy. Rumi
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 January 2008 at 12:15pm
Hayfa ther eis no scientific study that supports this and the arguments presented are fallacious. Those are good questions you posed. The resulting support for female circumcision are merely cultural practices not Islamic.
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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2008 at 1:34am

As we know nowadays, young girls have high sexual desires that I wonder why this is so.

Perhaps it is in the food that they take, perhaps with the over exposure or too much freedom in boy-girl relationship. or perhaps it could be this reason behind it.

Here I quote another article.

 All this applies to men. But what is the reason underlying the circumcision of girls, which is applied in some Islamic countries? The first reason is the statement of Muhammad: "Circumcision is a law for men and a preservation of honour for women."(3) The second reason lies in the supposition that circumcision makes a woman more enjoyable, provided that it is practised moderately. Umm `Atiyya the Ansarite narrated that a woman used to circumcise in Medina, and the Prophet said to her, "Do not overdo it, because this makes woman more favourable and it is more agreeable for the husband."(4) As to the third reason why a female should be circumcised, it is to "diminish her lust", and to "tone down the sexual desire of the woman."(5)

http://www.light-of-life.com/eng/reveal/r5405et7.htm

This practice was not new to the Arab society at that time. Muhammad Rasulullah knew about it and he did not put a stop to it. If it was harmful, he would have put a stop to it.

I agree that there should be some scientific studies that can confirm this practice. Like the male circumcision that is now proven to be healthy for men, there is a possibility that this practice is also has its own benefits.

Salam.

Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Angela View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angela Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 January 2008 at 7:59am
Nur,

While I understand that some women find this procedure a badge of honor, I would like to point out some fallacious arguments here.

Reducing the clitoris does not decrease a woman's sex drive.  The clitoris is a collection of nerve endings that provide stimulation.  However, the actual desire to have sex is triggered by hormones produced in the head and in the ovaries.  Progesterone, Estrogene and others combine to arouse.  This is why women with imbalances in these hormones often report little to no sex drive.

Women are triggered to arousal in a number of ways, smell, touch, sound.  Removing the clitoris or reducing it does not affect arousal or desire in any way.

What removing the clitoris does do however is remove sexual gratification when she is with her partner.  Only 30% of women have vaginal orgasms.  So, by removing the clitoris, or reducing it drastically, you would be denying more than 2/3rds of women enjoyment of sex.  The male circumcision does not prevent a man from having an orgasm. 

The removal of the foreskin in the man would be akin to removing the clitoral hood in a woman.  It is skin that is wrapped around the nerve centers.  Both are places that should be kept clean. 

While studies have shown that male circumcision has medical benefits, no study has ever shown the removal of the clitoris has any benefit to the woman.

I do not see where denying a woman the sexual fulfillment of being with her husband is a boon.  It will only make her less likely to want to have sex with him.  If you're not getting any enjoyment out of it, then its not going to be much fun for him either.

I would actually go so far as to put forth this would hurt relations between a woman and a man. 

The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) gave women back their rights and dignity.  He gave them sexual rights over their husbands the same as their husbands have over them.  Women can divorce if her husband isn't meeting her needs. 

If that is they case, then why is it that women would need to remove the one thing that gives them satisfaction.  If God didn't intend for husbands and wives to find joy in each other he would not have blessed us with this pleasure.

The problem with today's teens has nothing to do with girls having a clitoris.  It has to do with the lack of respect we teach them about their bodies and about their relations with God.  If a teen girl is taught to respect herself she's less likely to have sex at a young age. 

Studies have proven time and again that there is benefit to male circumcision.  Studies have shown that for women, the practice is harmful.  Especially in areas where the clitoris is completely removed, sometimes leaving the women with painful scars and infections.

Though I think its unnecessary, the practice of trimming the clitoral hood is more akin to male circumcision and is less likely to harm the girl, prevent her from having a fulfilling sex life with her husband and if done by a physician or trained person will not leave her in pain and scarred for the rest of her life.

Nur, you should really look away from your cultural upbringing and look to history.  For centuries women all over the world have not had this procedure and lived chaste lives.  Yet, in areas where this is practiced, rape is used as a weapon and women are abused and degraded.  The practice is not religious as it is also common in North African Christian communities.  Therefore, you can say that its Islamic or Not Islamic. 

What you must look at is why are you altering God's creation?  He demanded the circumcision from the descendants of Abraham as a sign of obedience.  Never has Allah commanded such from women. 

On a personal note, I think its strange that some Muslims will tell me its a sin to pluck one's eyebrows, but something as important to a woman's enjoyment of her husband is expendable.
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