Why war on ISLAM?? |
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Whisper
Senior Member Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752 |
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Unfortunately brother, one of the things that would concern me is what brand of Islam would they govern the folks with in the country. Hamsheer�em, my point is very simple. A people should be free to choose any brand, any breed of what they like. Who are we? The keepers of Islam or its copy rights holders? I believe that humans hold the simple straightforward right to follow any practices, any religion, folklore, culture, whatever in any way they like. And, we plus, least of all, the Pentagon or any other Grand Council of Greed have no right, at all, of telling them what to do or what not to do. It�s a natural learning process. If it doesn�t work for them then it�s up to them to choose what�s the next best thing for them. the true type of Islamic rule that was enlightening and tolerant as practiced by Islamic Spain in mid medeviel times, or the head chopping off force the women to be illiterate and wear burqa type that was practiced in Afghanistan under the Taliban ruled regime? Well, the burqa is perhaps the worst thing that can ever happen to any woman, but just in our parts of the world. I have known a good majority of women, in Muslims countries, who adorned their burqa despite their men�s demands to be free and open. It�s something blown out of proportion, I have not been able to work out by who. In time, if Afghans didn�t like or generally felt unsafe with the Talibaan, they would have definitely blown them out almost like stubbing a cigarette in an ashtray. It�s exactly their matter how they like to live or behave with their women. We do not have any right to implement any Manhattan model or caste them in moulds of our fancy. What breaks my heart is my Afghani refugee friends that I am working with to teach them to read and write, at least in English. Once they learn the English lettering they can read even the transliterated stuff in their own language. These are women aged 15 to 42, who were not allowed to attend school. The two set ups, the Industrialised US and the Afghani or, for that matter, any other on the sand dunes of Sind or the Mid East, are very different. I have been across both these. Had I found that the woman in Seattle had gained something after she was converted into a mortgage sharing slave I would have stood by you and shouted for all the women of the world to do that! I have tried to look kindly at a set up in which a footballer�s muse can spend in a day what a mother or a teacher can�t earn even in a whole life time. Just vulgar comes to mind. True the American and foreign occupation has been a bad thing, but I think the viciousness of the former rulers of Afghanistan were worse. I would not like to see the Wahabbi form of Islam there also. Maryah, what if they come to choose it?
Absolutely! But, did the Founding Fathers� prescribe that if some people fail to look like us, we must shower them from 52,000 feet up in the air, with some of the lethal stuff? Jefferson was not a "christian, he was a secularist, but he believed in the separation of church and state. I agree with you, but only to the extent that if the people in the US wish to keep the state separate from religion � WE HAVE NO OBJECTIONS AT ALL. But, if some people wish to run their state or states in keeping with their religion why should we bomb them or even object to what they want?
nu001
My friend, why would I mind anything, ever? We are here to sing our own songs, in our own tunes, What do you mean by pakistan wants? People? or Military? This survey is based on peoples� opinions and aspirations. what people wants is immaterial in pakistan, what military wants that's final. They will remain in control of power for eternity by feeding different capsules (Democracy, secularism, islamic etc etc) what ever can keep the people quiet for sometime. Eternity? All things come to their end, sooner or later. The army occupation of Pakistan is nearing its end. But the rule reamins to be a military rule, with or without uniform. Past sixty years should be enough to understand that. And a military rule can only provide different form of autocracy, coz that's what they have learnt and made for all over the world. Just like a mango tree can't produce apple, a man can't give birth to a child even if u try a million years, Army can't produce democracy in million years. I agree with you, these 60 years and five months have been a nightmare. But as they say sometimes enough becomes enough and change coughs in. The conditions are now set for a change. Army won�t produce democracy, the people will. Even a corrupt democratic politician can provide a better denocracy in course of time. See the example next door in india. Not just in India, but it has been that way in every single country of our world. People start from somewhere and then carve a system out for themselves. Pakistan needs a people's revolution, which the pakistanis are not capable of because of many reasons, they can only make some chaos, the situation suits the west perfectly to keep pakistan in their hand and dependant. My friend, solutions always rise out of a process of chaos. don't like to make it lengthy, it's useless talking about any kind of democracy in pakistan. Yes, it�s useless, perhaps, now. But the coming time is something else. |
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nu001
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 252 |
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Sorry brother, don't mind for my comments, It might sound harsh but I think that's the reality. What do you mean by pakistan wants? People? or Military? what people wants is immaterial in pakistan, what military wants that's final. They will remain in control of power for eternity by feeding different capsules (Democracy, secularism, islamic etc etc) what ever can keep the people quiet for sometime. But the rule reamins to be a military rule, with or without uniform. Past sixty years should be enough to understand that. And a military rule can only provide different form of autocracy, coz that's what they have learnt and made for all over the world. Just like a mango tree can't produce apple, a man can't give birth to a child even if u try a million years, Army can't produce democracy in million years. Even a corrupt democratic politician can provide a better denocracy in course of time. See the example next door in india. Pakistan needs a people's revolution, which the pakistanis are not capable of because of many reasons, they can only make some chaos, the situation suits the west perfectly to keep pakistan in their hand and dependant. don't like to make it lengthy, it's useless talking about any kind of democracy in pakistan. |
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"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"
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mariyah
Senior Member Joined: 29 March 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1283 |
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Unfortunately brother, one of the things that would concern me is what brand of Islam would they govern the folks with in the country. the true type of Islamic rule that was enlightening and tolerant as practiced by Islamic Spain in mid medeviel times, or the head chopping off force the women to be illiterate and wear burqa type that was practiced in Afghanistan under the Taliban ruled regime? What breaks my heart is my Afghani refugee friends that I am working with to teach them to read and write, at least in English. Once they learn the English lettering they can read even the transliterated stuff in their own language. These are women aged 15 to 42, who were not allowed to attend school. True the American and foreign occupation has been a bad thing, but I think the viciousness of the former rulers of Afghanistan were worse. I would not like to see the Wahabbi form of Islam there also.
Maybe Secularism is better. For whatever people fault America, the founding fathers had the right idea when they wrote the constitution and the bill of rights. The right to worship as one pleases without interruption (the colonists left Britain because of this issue, Brits were forcing Henry the VIII's church on everyone) The right to own property without having to quarter the state, freedom of expression and speech, was the original intent. Jefferson was not a "christian, he was a secularist, but he believed in the separation of church and state. The problem lies with the extremists that live in this country, that want their extreme views and religion to be everyone's. And the big money people are throwing their views too. I am sure the current president and administration is bought and owned. What the people here need to do is read their own constitution on their own and take back what is theirs. Problem is though that higher education is too costly now for the common man, funding has been cut by the Burro of a president, that and funding for healthcare for children. New Orleans is being rebuilt by Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. See there are good non muslims in the world! We should not judge between muslim and non muslim? We all have our own prisons, I would rather stay in this sleepy town in Mexico and dodge the cartels than dodge the feds! Try crossing the international border here, it is traumatizing! |
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"Every good deed is charity whether you come to your brother's assistance or just greet him with a smile.
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Whisper
Senior Member Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752 |
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What does the great self-congratulated secularism say If and when people want a system for themselves - other than secularism (as if it were certified by none other than the Creator of the Universe in person. And, possibly, at the Azores with Blair, Bush and Aznar being the primary witnesses!! Could any secularist just answer me what does the following say or, better still, requires? (I am secular, but don't treat secularism as some Gaad or a poison that kills all ailments!) Pakistanis want �Islamic democracy�: poll Anwar Iqbal WASHINGTON, Jan 7: The majority of Pakistanis want a larger role for both Islam and democracy in their country, but are deeply distrustful of the United States and its war on terror, says a survey released in Washington. What does your ethics demand? Send a few thousand B52s to liberate them from themselves? Or, just plant someone who smells nice to us to govern them? |
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Whisper
Senior Member Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752 |
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Diagoras Would you kindly list some achievments of brazen greed based state value systems? I have once before asked you when did that happen and where, but you seem to have evaporated into some non-existent thin air well matched with your statement. Do you hold the guts at least to clarify what your statement means? |
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palistine
Newbie Joined: 23 April 2007 Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Peace to all. i find this to be quite interesting topic. anyways, who ever wrote the following quote:"ISLAM IS INTOLERANT OF INJUSTICE, SO THE UNJUST WILL HATE IT" you definitely deserve a NOBLE PEACE PRICE i never heard anything like it before. peace, Palestine
Edited by palistine |
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nu001
Senior Member Male Joined: 02 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 252 |
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"Al-Quran-The only Straight path to success. Alhamdulillah"
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Whisper
Senior Member Male Joined: 25 July 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 4752 |
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That is, quite frankly, a terrible thing. Why should a Muslim be able to tell me how to wear my hair or who I can have sex with? What business is it of theirs? Good god, when did a Muslim do that? Mail me his or her address, I promise, I will fix him. |
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