The Salafi Methodology?

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 Abu Mujahid is wrong in many things because he may be living in far country. The people in Indian sub continent have good experience of the so called Wahhabi or salafi sect. There are many mosques and schools teaching the salafi doctrine. Its headquarter was in Patnah in India more than 150 years ago.
 The present day salafi school of thought seems to emanate from Sh. Mohmmad ibne abdul Wahhab. WE do not have any earlier history of these people. Now I come to some of the beliefs of these people and others.
1. They do have some good points because the brelvis (or may be Sufis too) had many shrines and they were actually doing lot of worthless anti-Islamic deeds on the shrines. The poor illitrate muslims used to go to Peers asking for advice and even seeking children. I cannot go into detail. There were a lot of very bad things being done there including lot of music and dancing.
2. The Wahhabis came as a treatment for the above type of maladies. That was good. But then they all got mixed up in the Noor (Light) and knowledge / no knowledge of the unseen (Ghaib). There was lot of tussle.
3. More problem because the Wahhabis (pls excuse me for using this term) said that the prophet was just a man (Bashar) like us. The Berlvis or the sufis did not like it. They said it was a sin to say such thing.
4. The work of the Salafis on that line was very good. But please note that I myself heard one of those Salafi types saying to me about the Aulia Allah (The saints ) that they were all fraud. I did not like it.
 I will try to continue this subject in next posts, Insha Allah.

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minuteman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: 25 March 2007 Status: Offline Points: 1642	Post Options Post Reply Quote minuteman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 August 2007 at 5:10am
	Abu Mujahid is wrong in many things because he may be living in far country. The people in Indian sub continent have good experience of the so called Wahhabi or salafi sect. There are many mosques and schools teaching the salafi doctrine. Its headquarter was in Patnah in India more than 150 years ago. The present day salafi school of thought seems to emanate from Sh. Mohmmad ibne abdul Wahhab. WE do not have any earlier history of these people. Now I come to some of the beliefs of these people and others. 1. They do have some good points because the brelvis (or may be Sufis too) had many shrines and they were actually doing lot of worthless anti-Islamic deeds on the shrines. The poor illitrate muslims used to go to Peers asking for advice and even seeking children. I cannot go into detail. There were a lot of very bad things being done there including lot of music and dancing. 2. The Wahhabis came as a treatment for the above type of maladies. That was good. But then they all got mixed up in the Noor (Light) and knowledge / no knowledge of the unseen (Ghaib). There was lot of tussle. 3. More problem because the Wahhabis (pls excuse me for using this term) said that the prophet was just a man (Bashar) like us. The Berlvis or the sufis did not like it. They said it was a sin to say such thing. 4. The work of the Salafis on that line was very good. But please note that I myself heard one of those Salafi types saying to me about the Aulia Allah (The saints ) that they were all fraud. I did not like it. I will try to continue this subject in next posts, Insha Allah.

rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 August 2007 at 1:37am
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem I was reading closely your premises for sometime only to find out you are either confused sufi or student beginner who doesn�t want to learn Islam except from certain sufi people. Methodology, Madhab, You mean you imagined something about me then chose to accept it as fact all the while claiming you are not a student not learning and thus know all there is to know. So then are you a shaykh if your not a student becouse unless you are in the process of learning like my self and every other muslim who isnt a scholar your belittling people seeking knowledge is absolutely not of this Deen. You should also know how you judge others allah will judge you. No one is rejecting Your first mistake or lie. Salafi's reject the madhhabs, Ijazah and Taqlid maybe not in your little corner of the world but i assure you in every other place on earth i have seen this with my own eyes spoken to countless others who have seen the same and read the works of many shuyukh who have also seen the same. Many on this board would testify to what i am saying, so clearly you are or speaking out of ignorance and not knowing something. no madhab can exist without correct narration from prophet pbuh. That narration combining with whole range of Islamic textual collection are where madhahib can differ due to its chain euthenics, understanding, interpretation and so on. This is one reason for differences claiming it is the main one is ignorant. It was the madhhabs after the time of the tabiin that collected these works and finished everything so your conclusion does not lead to the salafiyah which came a mere 200 years ago. Opinions of Imam Shafi, Abu Hanifa, Ibnu Hanbal or Malik said are not per se deen. No they are taken after the tabiin above the common muslim and well ahead of any wahhabi shaykh. Rather which verse or hadith they based on their opinion is what is counted if it�s correct. You imagine in your mind they simply "based" there opinion on ahadith then "simply" concluded what is correct all the while placing your self at there level becouse you CLAIM you understand what it is they did to arrive at there rulings. Its all so simple brother why dont you go do it? The fact is you are over simplifying everything not factoring in entire islamic sciences and missing far to much. They said our opinion don't count if it contradict correct hadith. Thank you for proving my point of being such extremists that you actually think you can correct a mujtahid Imam by quoting a hadith. Why dont we play hadith checkers or even better hadith poker my set of hadith will trump yours anyday [thats sarcasm if you didnt pick that up] Every student knows that none of four imams collect all correct hadiths. Yes that is true, when they where missing ahadith they performed ijtihad, it is said by the uluma that Imam abu hanifah was missing something like 100 individual ahadith in his time, his latter students compared his ijtihad to these ahadith and found his opinion to be in line with them. Despite they based their madhabs on many hadiths (authentic and non authentic), you paint the picture as if it was all wishy washy, the fact is the science of hadith verification began in the time of the tabiin and was perfected by the muhadithin. It didnt begin in the time of the Muhadithin as you imply here. Similarly Usul al Fiqh which is pretty much what the madhhabs are has nothing to do whith hadith verification or even relies on it, so much for your in depth knowledge. That is where Imam Bukhari/Muslim etc (Which has no Madhab to my reading) comes into picture to fill the gab. Then you should keep reading, Imam Bukhari was a mujtahid Imam who many scholars claim had his own madhhab, imam muslim was either shafii or hanbali according to diferent accounts or maybe he simply swithched madhhabs which explain this, Imam muslim also did Taqlid of Imam Bukhari. If we force dhulabul Ilmi (Student of knowledge) who has means to learn the Usul tafsir, usul alhadith, usul fiqh, usul luqah the same understanding of certain things that four madhabs say so then we make four imams at the ranks of prophet pbuh. Only according to your psychological short commings as you seemingly are incapable of telling the difference according to your own analogy. Other people br are smarter than that and actually know the difference between rasul allah [sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam] and the four imams. That is the baytul qasidah yaa sheekhana. We say, mujtahid, mujadid of this ummah can use same methodology and verify the wrongs of four madhahib without down grading their status. The mujtahid or mujadid have only come from within the madhhabs them selves, so then now what is your point that muhammad ibn abdul wahhab was a mujtahid....only to the people who follow which is different from any other mujtahid or mujadid that came beffore him ecouse they where accepted by the entire muslim ummah as having this status in islam regardless of whether they followed them or not. Why is so difficult to understand this simple truth? Why do you want to claim something that doesn�t exist? Why you hate your brothers in Islam who strive hard to hold the same foundation that four Madahibs stand for without blind taqlid. Becouse you lack knwoledge, its that simple for me. You constantly contradict your self becouse you dont even know the meanings of simple words. Every scholar in Islam did Taqlid of his teacher this is how knowledge was handed down in Islam. Some jahil came along redefined the word Taqlid by adding blind at the end of it and every ignorant muslim in this ummah agreed with him without actualy bothering to look up he proper meaning of the word. But i guess that is why they are ignorant to begin with they are uneducated and follow gossip. Since the madhhabs where here first BR you have to accept our definition of it which doesnt incldue the "blind" qualifying remark and thus permits a student to ask his teacher questions. Bro, Its time you do revision of your sufi collection. Or Open your eyes on all correct sunni Islamic collections that form the bases of ahlul sunnah waljamaha. Subhanahllah you cant even differentiate between sufism and fiqh how then can you pretend to lecture others. Im Hanafi in my fiqh not sufi, if you ever learn the difference between the two rather than make it up as you go along you will see how blind this statment of your is. Edited by rami
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Abu Mujahid Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Guest Group Joined: 14 April 2007 Status: Offline Points: 264	Post Options Post Reply Quote Abu Mujahid Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 August 2007 at 12:05am
	Rami, I was reading closely your premises for sometime only to find out you are either confused sufi or student beginner who doesn�t want to learn Islam except from certain sufi people. Methodology, Madhab, Ijaza and other words has a meaning for four madhabs. No one is rejecting it but what you are missing is no madhab can exist without correct narration from prophet pbuh. That narration combining with whole range of Islamic textual collection are where madhahib can differ due to its chain euthenics, understanding, interpretation and so on. Opinions of Imam Shafi, Abu Hanifa, Ibnu Hanbal or Malik said are not per se deen. Rather which verse or hadith they based on their opinion is what is counted if it�s correct. They said our opinion don't count if it contradict correct hadith. Every student knows that none of four imams collect all correct hadiths. Despite they based their madhabs on many hadiths (authentic and non authentic), they missed also many ahadiths due to ruwatul hadith disperse in many countries. That is where Imam Bukhari/Muslim etc (Which has no Madhab to my reading) comes into picture to fill the gab. If we force dhulabul Ilmi (Student of knowledge) who has means to learn the Usul tafsir, usul alhadith, usul fiqh, usul luqah the same understanding of certain things that four madhabs say so then we make four imams at the ranks of prophet pbuh. That is the baytul qasidah yaa sheekhana. We say, mujtahid, mujadid of this ummah can use same methodology and verify the wrongs of four madhahib without down grading their status. Why is so difficult to understand this simple truth? Why do you want to claim something that doesn�t exist? Why you hate your brothers in Islam who strive hard to hold the same foundation that four Madahibs stand for without blind taqlid. Bro, Its time you do revision of your sufi collection. Or Open your eyes on all correct sunni Islamic collections that form the bases of ahlul sunnah waljamaha. Abu Mujahid
	Islam need true muslims

rami Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Moderator Group Male Joined: 01 March 2000 Status: Offline Points: 2549	Post Options Post Reply Quote rami Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 August 2007 at 10:07pm
	Bi ismillahi rahmani raheem assalamu alaikum This whole post is self contradictory considering what they follow and dont follow. when to my understanding the Salafi methodology places all of its jurisprudence Salafi's have never developed there own principles of jurispridance or rather Usual al Fiqh, so wording it this way makes me think you are confusing there approach with that of the madhhabs. on the Qur'an and Sunnah according to the interpretation of the Salaf (i.e. first three generations of Muslims) and rejects all Bid'a and Shirk. This is wishfull thinking, can you establish a link between there interpretation and that of the salaf? How can you when they reject Taqlid dont have any Ijazah going back to the time of the salaf and are anti madhhab which is the only link that exists between us and the salaf. Just becouse they claim to be doing something does not mean they actualy are. What Bidah and shirk are they rejecting does that mean every one else is following Bidah and Shirk and the four orthodox madhhabs of islam which absolutely reject salafi's have been wrong for 1400 years? This should have been posted in the Intrafaith section, make some effort brother and read the guidlines. Edited by rami
	Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Abdul-Azeem'876 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Newbie Joined: 17 August 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 27	Post Options Post Reply Quote Abdul-Azeem'876 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 August 2007 at 4:24pm
	I would like to see peoples opinions on the salafi methodology. Whats Good about it? Whats bad about it? etc. Because I hear and see alot of indviduals saying negative things about the salafis or the "wahhabis" and have alot of opposition towards them when to my understanding the Salafi methodology places all of its jurisprudence on the Qur'an and Sunnah according to the interpretation of the Salaf (i.e. first three generations of Muslims) and rejects all Bid'a and Shirk. With that being said what is your take on this matter?