a Surah the like thereof |
Post Reply | Page <1 5051525354> |
Author | |||||||
The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||||
@TG12345 Can you please remind me how Jesus PBUH was not an exception to the divine rule of birth?
|
|||||||
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
|||||||
TG12345
Senior Member Male Joined: 16 December 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1146 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||||
Where does the Quran mention there is a rule of birth? Can you point to an ayat which says "God did not form a human being except from a man and a woman?" If so, you have a case. |
|||||||
The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||||
Fair enough. Perhaps I should have said that as a Muslim you should be glad to know the verse can have a meaning other than literal, which would make it wrong.
Why can it not have both meanings? I would not be surprised if it has more meanings as well. Great question. In a very loose sense of the word, yes. I believe Jesus was a great person, and that his teachings about relating to other people that are found in the Gospels are true and the most profound thing I have ever read. I believe he was crucified, don�t know whether he was resurrected by God. I believe God created the world, and that He is good and just. I no longer believe that Jesus is God. You can decide for yourself whether I am a Christian or not. If you do not believe in a multiplicity of gods and if you believe Jesus's PBUH teachings are good, I would like to think you are a Christian. And, indeed, the true God, is great and just. Is there a verse that says that God did not create any person but through a man and woman? Or that all human beings come from a union of man and a woman? Also, in the case of Jesus the �exception� (some could see it as a contradiction if there is indeed a verse that states all human beings are born through union of man and woman) is explained in the Quran itself. I see nothing in the book about people born with two hearts. Please. I want a simple answer. Is Jesus PBUH an exception or not to the obvious rule that procreation takes place when men and women are sexually united? And yes, God Almighty says in His book that Jesus PBUH was born miraculously. |
|||||||
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
|||||||
TG12345
Senior Member Male Joined: 16 December 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1146 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||||
Because a literal meaning would mean that God is wrong when He said He created no man with two hearts in his body.
I never believed in a multiplicity of gods, but I used to believe God exists as a Trinity and manifested Himself as Jesus, as well as the Father and the Holy Spirit. I do not anymore. I believe God is one-in-one, not one-in-three, and that Jesus was a man and God is God.
I will answer your question but afterwards please answer mine. Jesus was an exception to the rule that people are created when a man and a woman have sex. Now I ask you, is there a verse in the Quran that states God has created no man except through the union of a male and female? Saying God creates men with one heart in their chest is one thing. Saying He did not create a man with two hearts is another. |
|||||||
The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||||
Is there a verse that says that God did not create any person but through a man and woman? Or that all human beings come from a union of man and a woman?
Also, in the case of Jesus the �exception� (some could see it as a contradiction if there is indeed a verse that states all human beings are born through union of man and woman) is explained in the Quran itself. I see nothing in the book about people born with two hearts. There are dozens of references about procreation in the Quran: Here's one_ sura 75, verse 37-38: "Was (man) not a small quantity of sperm which has been poured out? After that he was something which clings; then God fashioned him in due proportion." Does this not clearly allude to the process we are aware of? And: -sura 39, verse 6: "(God) fashions you inside the bodies of your mothers, formation after formation, in three (veils of) darkness." (zulumat) Further: --sura 86, verse 6 and 7: "(Man) was fashioned from a liquid poured out. It issued (as a result) of the conjunction of the sexual area of the man and the sexual area of the woman." The sexual area of the man is indicated in the text of the Quran by the world sulb (singular). The sexual areas of the woman are designated in the Quran by the word tara'ib (plural). The behavior of a man in his intimate relationships with his wife is stated explicitly. "Your wives are a tilth. Go to your tilth as you will. Do (some good act) for your souls beforehand." In what manner is this a miracle? I know you have said it, but I don�t see the reason for this claim. It is a miracle because of the circumstances in which this revelation reached the Prophet, who was not literate. These revelations came over a period of 23 years and their order was dictated too. The Prophet did not know. Then how do you know there are not exceptions to the other rules we discussed (not punishing communities before warning them, all things prostrating to Him, not accepting other religions but Islam)? How do you know which rules have exceptions and which ones do not? See my response in the foregoing.We do not know, until we study and observe! Do you agree Jesus is an exception to His rule? I understand Muhammad was illiterate and not a scholar, but are you suggesting the ancient Arabs thought that a baby inside its mothers womb did not have a heart? |
|||||||
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
|||||||
The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||||
Now I ask you, is there a verse in the Quran that states God has created no man except through the union of a male and female?
I do not know. But it does say that Jesus was created differently. Adam was also created differently. And both births are exceptions to His rule. Because both Adam and Jesus PBUT were men. Neither had a father although Jesus had a mother. |
|||||||
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
|||||||
The Saint
Senior Member Joined: 07 November 2014 Status: Offline Points: 832 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||||
erm.......
So you can have a law that you can ignore when you feel like??? In the birth of Jesus PBUH, without male intervention, we have an exception. How do we know that it is OK or not OK to have test tube babies??? We don't know but because it goes against nature it should be harmful. |
|||||||
and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious |
|||||||
TG12345
Senior Member Male Joined: 16 December 2012 Status: Offline Points: 1146 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||||||
All these verses describe how God makes a person out of the sexual union of a man and a woman. None of them says God has not created man but from the union of a man and a woman. This is a pretty important difference. Saying that human beings come from the sexual intercource of a man and a woman is one thing. It is the norm, or as one could say, a rule. However, it leaves open the possibility there may be exceptions. Saying that no person is created but from the sexual intercourse of a man and a woman is different. It is not general statement, but an absolute statement. An exception would make it wrong.
What were the circumstances in which this revelation reached Muhammad?
Are you saying then that perhaps there are some religions that Allah will accept other than Islam, or that there are some of His creation that do not prostrate to Him, or that He punished some communities without warning them? How would you test out these scenarios?
? |
|||||||
Post Reply | Page <1 5051525354> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |