abujamal wrote: recent moves to rename the "war on terror" to "war on extremism" which is virtually saying War on Islam. Blair's definition of who falls into this actually covers all Muslims as they all are unanimous on what Islam says on the issues he raised.   What we are confronting here is an evil ideology. ... it is a global struggle and it is a battle of ideas, hearts and minds, both within Islam and outside it. Neither is it true that they have no demands. They do. It is just that no sane person would negotiate on them. They demand the elimination of Israel; the withdrawal of all westerners from Muslim countries, irrespective of the wishes of people and Government; the establishment of effectively Taleban states and Sharia law in the Arab world en route to one Caliphate of all Muslim nations. The 20th century showed how powerful political ideologies could be. This is a religious ideology, a strain within the world-wide religion of Islam....Those who kill in its name believe genuinely that in doing it, they do God�s work; they go to paradise. The creation of Israel is a crime and it has to be erased.... Just as great is their hatred for so-called apostate Governments in Muslim countries... At last year�s Party Conference I talked about this ideology in these terms: Its roots are not superficial but deep, in the madrassehs of Pakistan, in the extreme forms of Wahabi doctrine in Saudi Arabia, in the former training camps of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan; in the cauldron of Chechnya; in parts of the politics of most countries of the Middle East and many in Asia; in the extremist minority that now in every European city preach hatred of the West and our way of life. This is what we are up against. It cannot be beaten except by confronting it, symptoms and causes, head-on. Without compromise and without delusion. We must be clear about how we win this struggle. We should take what security measures we can. But let us not kid ourselves. In the end, it is by the power of argument, debate, true religious faith and true legitimate politics that we will defeat this threat. That means not just arguing against their terrorism but their politics and their perversion of religious faith. It means exposing as the rubbish it is, the propaganda about America and its allies wanting to punish Muslims or eradicate Islam.   Prime Minister Blair's Speech Published: July 16, 2005

"recent moves to rename the "war on terror" to "war on extremism" which is virtually saying War on Islam. Blair's definition of who falls into this actually covers all Muslims as they all are unanimous on what Islam says on the issues he raised."

B: Huh?  "War on Extremism" covers all Muslims?  How so?

jibreel wrote: b95000 wrote: What in the world is your agenda Jibreel - to demean a major world Faith?  The sacrifices of the Prophet Jesus (PBUH) should not rile you up so much... What next Jibreel, will you roll out your Nazi barbs? I've only ever said that there is a death cult that is plaguing (the edges of) Islam.  Fortunately people like the Sunnis Scholars in Britain and Muslim Scholars in the US issuing a fatwa against terrorism are answering the call.  What are you going to call them, Jibreel? Ah, but i never said all Christians believe these pagan superstitions which where invented after Jesus (PBUH) told them not to fallow., i said only those who believe in Paul's Gospel do., and someone else stated that Paul is a phony not me., maybe you have to deal with him, i support believers. Or is your post seeking arouse another totalitarian nation to help you invent a reason to BLAME others again for the things your agenda of coming here. In the other hand, the real "death" cult AKA crusades is a sect which lies that Jesus (PBUH) is ALLAH and dies, and they keep his bloody image on the cross to tesify that they would never of believed in him until his death t and only to convince them that he was mortal to contradict there mystery.,   And they are out to murder other people who they have a faith built on a blood line they claim Jesus (PBUH) was from and use a bias and racial intolerant excuse, like the way they murdered ARAB jews, Christians and Muslims in spain. Real christians pray to God like Jesus (PBUH) told them too

Well, I'm not sure what you think a Christian is Jibreel, but I pray boldly to God (Hebrews 4) through the efficacy of the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross.  Jesus also claimed to be God and that is why the Jewish religious leaders wanted to kill Him.  I believe Jesus..and I believe in Jesus..and I believe in God...

Isaiah 9 -   ⁶ For to us a child is born,
       to us a son is given,
       and the government will be on his shoulders.
       And he will be called
       Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
       Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

"Before Abraham was born, I am"  Jesus Christ, John 8

jibreel wrote: In the other hand, the real "death" cult AKA crusades is a sect which lies that Jesus (PBUH) is ALLAH and dies...

What? Why say 'real' as if what's going on now is not 'real' death cultism?  If a belief system advocates the murder of innocent - it can definitely be called a death cult.  That could be true of other times in history - for instance on both sides of the crusades, and it is true now with OBL, AQ and the Taliban, et al,  warping of Islam extremism..


Edited by b95000

b95000 wrote: jibreel wrote: Salam abujamal The war was on Islam all along, they just lied about it from the start, its about IRAN now Islam herself is at war with those instituting an Islamic religious duty to murder in the name of the Faith.� The two recent Western Muslim fatwas make certain that such will not and cannot be tolerated.� So, Jibreel, if you're going to make shadowy references to 'it's about IRAN now' you should also make shadowy references to all those Muslim clerics in the West and how they're being puppet mastered by Bush and Blair...can't deny these facts, can you?

Islam never attacked anyone, Islam is a religion, the crusades on the
other hand are about this., and various death cult churches who want to
colonize using religion to practice nazism, means national expansion.

there is no compulsion in religion, you can not make people believe in
something when God does not guide evil doers.

So the fact that Islam teaches to never attack, and more muslims die from
standing up to people with WMOD with there faith does noty make them a
death cult, the dead are walking all around you is what death cult means.

These are the death cults, people who are death dumb and blind lost into
perdition and seeking to take others with them for company, they can not
see anymore and they can not hear any more because God removed there
sight and hearing from them for there disbelief in his revelations andin
God., should GOD guide such people who do wrong?

Yet while this life is a test we have to also stand up against those going
around killing for the things they replaced God with, like money and oil.
But we can not attack people unless they attack us first., even while they
are willing to kill you for the things they believe will give them the life
here in this world over Gods grace.

Do you realize this yet?
easier to recognize it by the way some corporate turn people the other
direction for there own selfish interests., and what kind of people do you
think accept such cold in human choices but the godless who have no
sight or hearing, would you fallow them into perdition?

So stop your blame game on Islam because its a sin to that you can not
recognize the innocent victims deaths cults claimed already and for
what?.

It is one thing to feel for people in our streets her in the west who get
caught in the middle, but what gives you the right to ignore others who
lost there lives first from these evil peoples agendas?

And lets not even start body counts teh U.S. killed while claiming Sadam
had the WMOD.

So i am not saying kill people on trains and buses, but what i am saying is
that you have to be racist to believe its not fair when the same things you
do happens to you.

If you do not understand this, then you missed what faith and truth is,
becuase you can not have both bloodshed and faith., and that IS NOT
ISLAM.

Islam is the religion Jesus (PBUH) was telling the jews to go BACK TO for
breaking there oaths, for changing the scriptures, and who else helped
corrupt the Gospels but these same enemies of Jesus (PBUH), how un just.

And do not confuse faith with genealogy.,
ABRAHAM (PBUH) means father remember.
Jesus (PBUH) refered him to our father ABRAHAM (PBUH),


Edited by jibreel

By the way, a very good article to think about

Pauline Christianity


It is believed that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, located in present day
Israel. All of the prophets mentioned in the Bible (and Quran) originated
from various areas of the Middle East. Paul, not Jesus, is primarily
responsible for the current Christian creed based on the doctrine of the
Trinity (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit). Saul was
a Jew who reportedly persecuted the early Christians. His name was later
changed to Paul, probably because the name Saul was associated with
Judaism. One day on his way to Damascus, Paul had a vision that
resulted in his conversion. Following this incident, Paul became the most
ardent missionary of Christianity. (Noss 466-467) In his book ?The 100: A
Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History,? Michael Hart lists
Muhammad first, followed by Paul, and then Jesus. Hart proposes that the
honor for the spread of Christianity has to be shared between Paul and
Jesus. Apparently Paul won because he wrote more books of the Bible
than any other author, whereas Jesus did not write a single word. It
should also be noted that Paul never even met Jesus.



Since Jesus did not write any of his teachings, historians are generally in
agreement that the writings that have come down to us in the New
Testament have been amplified with the predispositions of the early
Christians, thus displacing the original teachings of Jesus.(Noss 446)
More than three centuries after Jesus was reportedly crucified, there were
many controversies and minutiae surrounding his status. Emperor
Constantine called the first ecumenical council of the Christian church in
ancient Nicaea (now Iznik, Turkey) in 325 CE to resolve the issue. He
hoped that a general council would solve the problem created in the
Eastern church by Arianism, a ?heresy? first proposed by Arius of
Alexandria, which affirmed that Jesus was not divine but a created being.
The council condemned Arius and incorporated the non-scriptural word
homoousios (of one substance) into what later became known as the
Nicene Creed, signifying the absolute equality of the Son (Jesus) with the
Father (God). Emperor Constantine then exiled Arius. To differ from the
official and final version of this new theology ? which essentially stated
that Jesus was God incarnate ? was blasphemy.(?Encyclopedia Britannica?)

Christianity later became the official religion of the Roman Empire under
Theodosius, and there were attempts at formalization and uniformity
within the church regarding the doctrine of the Trinity. This did not stop
the controversy, and there were more ecumenical council debates
between western and eastern Christians for generations. Western
Christian theology eventually dominated. The result was that Christians,
particularly in the East, who disagreed with the newly mandated doctrine
of the Trinity, were ostracized and persecuted. In some cases, those who
rejected the new doctrine were put to death as the concept eventually
took hold.



The Europeans were immersed in paganism when Jesus was born, and it
took about eight centuries before all of Europe finally accepted
Christianity as their creed. During such a lengthy period, it was only
natural that some pagan beliefs and practices were incorporated into the
new religion. For example, December 25th was a popular Roman holiday
that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the
sun, which heralded the rebirth of spring and summer. The birth of the
sun became synonymous with the birth of the Son of God, which is now
commonly accepted as Jesus� birthday. The actual birthday of Jesus
cannot be precisely determined, as Christians did not begin to reckon
time before and after the birth of Jesus until about six centuries after he
was born.(Noss 450) Another example of a pre-Christian ritual is the
veneration of the evergreen tree in western and northern Europe,
particularly in Germany during pagan times, so the ?Christmas tree? was
added to the birthday celebration of Jesus.



For thousands of years prior to the birth of Jesus, the Indo-Europeans
had developed a tripartite ideology. At the highest level was a ?sky god,?
who sees all human activity from his heavenly abode. The second part of
heaven reflected heroic warriors and raiders supported by a war/thunder
god. The third part of this Indo-European belief was the pursuit of
happiness ? a universal human trait.(Winn 4-5) This tripartite scheme was
prevalent in many aspects of Indo-European culture, and is evident even
today. Examples include many nations� flags that are made up of three
colors, and governments that are divided into three branches ? executive,
legislative, and judicial.

Pre-Christian Europeans ritually sacrificed humans to their pagan gods.
(Winn 45-47) As the Europeans gradually started to move away from
paganism and adopt their newly discovered Middle Eastern religion ?
Christianity ? the idolatrous tradition of human sacrifice blended
harmoniously with the new theology ? the sacrifice of God�s only begotten
son for the sins of all humanity. The tripartite hierarchy that was so
embedded in Indo-European culture for thousands of years played an
influential role in the development of a doctrine based on a triune God,
viz., God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.



Edited by jibreel