The Amazing Accomplishments of Muslim Scientists

Airmano wrote: ...I guess you try to tell me that you don't consider him the way I do ? Not a problem. In any case: Difficult to ask him now, but may be you should read his letter...

I don't have any interest in what Einstein believed or what you believe about him. However, I do see people of both sides trying hard to show or claim that the Mr Einstein was indeed subscriber to their creed. For example this claim that he was't atheist. Similarly your Wiki call him agnostic and not atheist. But, its more amusing to see how you want to cling with his quote and show that you consider his ideas on faith as universal, no matter how wrong his own earlier scientific theories have been shown and to be inconsistent with his latter ones.

airmano wrote: Where did I say that I consider his "ideas on faith" as universal ? What do you actually mean by "universal" anyway ?

Oh, I thought your signature 'The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses' from Mr Einstein's quote matches with your faith (atheist or humanism or whatever...). Thus assuming this quote is your 'faith' or close to it, shouldn't the faith be universal (temporally and spatially) till proven otherwise? However, my argument is to show that since Mr Einstein kept changing (refining) his scientific ideas, how reliable could his 'faith' related ideas be, to put your 'faith' into his hands?

airmano wrote: ....What is left from the Greeks is neither Zeus nor Hera, but Plato, Aristoteles, Mathematics, and the concept of Democracy, and Science. A similar logic applies to the Romans, the Egyptians, the Phoenicians and so on. I know that your reaction is: "This time [with Islam] it's different". Havin' said so, you also know that all the other religions share exactly this thought - but not the content....

Your comparison of Religion vs Science/democracy/mathematics reflects your own experience with those who profess their religions compartmentalized eg church vs state etc. Their dogmatic views (including some Muslims) consider their faith to be something other than Science and that is where the problem lies. Thus, IMHO, it is not correct to reject Islam assuming it in negation of science. Science is all about what humans have or can have knowledge about its finite surroundings. However, the concept of 'Infinite' God in Islam, while compelling people to understand the nature through science and logic and progress through it, it also opens up the infinite possibilities through which the 'yet' unknown to be understood. Thus, correct understanding of Islam, makes a person less dogmatic and not more. On the contrary, you will find majority of Muslims with dogmatic views, but that is not because of Islam, but because of many reasons including limited knowledge that too acquired through traditional ways such as heart by heart transfer and little or no time to ponder of their own. Their usual interaction with Quran is by keeping it in 100 folds of expensive cloth and putting it on the highest (and farthest) shelf of a cupboard. At max, they would recite it in Arabic without understanding a bit about it, assuming its magical effect on their lives and tremendous addition in their spiritual virtues. Now, when other people see the Muslims, you have truely highlighted, they don't find any difference in them as compared to other people of faith. On top of it, the present situation of war on terror, with many likes of Donald Trumps, has compounded the confusion about correct understanding of Islam through Quran.
It is the rationale thinking which is demanded by Quran to understand its verses with open and unbiased mind, but with only one condition and that is, one must be looking for God's help to make him understand them. Here, the assumption of God is not conditioned with Islam's concept of Allah, but knowing that all this universe can't exist without a creator, realizing who could be such a creator, what would be the attributes of such a creator and then looking for this creator's help to search for finding the 'eternal truth'. Here, I would recommend reading Quran with this approach, beside other thoughtful books on faith. If in the end, assuming you remained unbiased in this quest, there are chances, that you may also find the 'eternal truth' like many others who did eg Prof Jeffery Lang, the Professor of Mathematics and the author of the book 'If Angles Ask'. On the other hand, if you want to discuss the proof of the existence/non existence of God through science, I am not the right person to discuss about it. I am sorry, I am not qualified to do so. Hope you understand my own personal limitation. One last thing from your narration caught my attention to comment about where it is said Seek the company of those who search for truth; run from those who have found it. If by 'truth' you mean finding and discovering laws of nature, like the scientist do, I fully subscribe this notion. But if it implies search the existence of 'God', then IMHO, this search is a wasteful effort. Simply because of the limitations of our search tools to discover an infinite entity. This is the maximum that I can think of this topic and nothing more. Once again, hopefully you would excuse me for my own humble limitations.

Best regards!


Edited by AhmadJoyia - 27 February 2016 at 8:32pm

Search and exploration for wonders of nature created by some infinite divine being (Muslims call this being as Allah) is not restricted nor limited through any Islamic doctrine/principle.