False prophets

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 islamispeace wrote:

 JOUBERAR wrote:

 islamispeace wrote:

RESPONSE TO JOUBERAR:

I asked you for evidence of Paul's claims.  What proof did he provide for his claims?  Why is Paul telling the truth but Muhammad is not?  I did not ask for a chronology of Paul's activities.  I already know about that.  

I am exposing the holes in your argument against Muhammad (pbuh).  You assume many things because of your JudeoChristian-centrist bias and have many hypocritical standards.  

Paul have whitenesses with him on his way to Damascus.
After three years his work in Damascus came to an abrupt end. Somehow he had fallen foul of the ethnarch (governor) of the region of Nabataean Arabia. The ethnarch set a watch on the gates of Damascus, but Paul escaped over the wall in a basket and made his way to Jerusalem. There he met Peter, the Apostle, and James, the Lord's brother. This was an important meeting, for it established Paul as a recognized Apostle alongside the founders of the church at Jerusalem. The visit was brief, and Paul did not meet the Christian communities in the vicinity. Most likely this was due to the danger of reprisals from the Pharisees, who regarded Paul as a renegade. Therefore, after only two weeks, he set out on a new mission to Cilicia and Syria, with a base in his native city of Tarsus

Pauls claims was writen in a time when the middle east was under the control of the Roman empire and Paul and the narraters of the new testament was highly educated personal who captured the history to the best of thier ability.

Muhammad as you know was illiterate he could not read nor write, so who is the is the most reliable source who will you put under your administration to record the events of a book the one who can read or write or the one who can not.

If you already know about Pauls claims then why do ask me again You know why islam hate Paul so much cos he is the biggest thorn is islams flesh and muslims cant take the fact that he was straight forward with his faith and he predicted the false religions like islam will arise by making claims of recieving the word of God through intercessing with angels.

Luke identifies Saul of Tarsus who becomes the Apostle Paul. More than half of the book of Acts is devoted to Paul's conversion and mission trips. 

Due to the credibility of the book of Acts, the probability for the Apostle Paul's story is very high. The archaeological discoveries related to the book of Acts also correlate to the Apostle Paul. This adds 162 items into the calculation that support the life of Paul.

Peter identifies the Apostle Paul and discusses Paul's writing. ". . . our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:15-16). 
Due to Paul's mission work, he wrote 13 epistles. Nine of these were addressed to local churches Paul had helped to establish. Three epistles are referred to as Pastoral Epistles. And one is address to a fellow Christian (Philemon) about a runaway slave named Onesimus, who had become a Christian. 

The written evidence recorded before the end of the 1st century gives us three independent sources that support the existence of the Apostle Paul. But the greatest contribution to establishing the biblical character known as the Apostle Paul are the archaeological discoveries that match the written text in the book of Acts. 

Act 17:1 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: 

Act 17:2 and Paul, as his custom was, went in unto them, and for three sabbath days reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 
Act 17:3 opening and alleging that it behooved the Christ to suffer, and to rise again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom, said he, I proclaim unto you, is the Christ.(This is why muslims hate Paul so much)

You say Paul had witnesses.  There are two problems with this argument.  First of all, who were these witnesses?  What happened to them?  Sorry, but phantom witnesses don't give Paul more credibility.  Second of all, since you refer to the Books of Acts perceived "credibility", I feel that I should point out that it does not give a consistent analysis of the encounter in Damascus.  In other words, it contradicts itself.  Acts 9 says that the alleged "witnesses" heard something but did not see anyone whereas Acts 22 says they did not hear anything at all, let alone seeing anything:

Acts 9: 1-9

 ¹Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord's disciples. He went to the high priest ²and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. ³As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. ⁴He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" 
 ⁵"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. 
   "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. ⁶"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." 
 ⁷The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. ⁸Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. ⁹For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

Acts 22: 1-11

 ¹ �Brethren and fathers, hear my defense before you now.� ² And when they heard that he spoke to them in the Hebrew language, they kept all the more silent.
Then he said: ³ �I am indeed a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, taught according to the strictness of our fathers� law, and was zealous toward God as you all are today. ⁴ I persecuted this Way to the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women, ⁵ as also the high priest bears me witness, and all the council of the elders, from whom I also received letters to the brethren, and went to Damascus to bring in chains even those who were there to Jerusalem to be punished. 
⁶ �Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. ⁷ And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, �Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?� ⁸ So I answered, �Who are You, Lord?� And He said to me, �I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.� 
⁹ �And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a]¹⁰ but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. So I said, �What shall I do, Lord?� And the Lord said to me, �Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.� ¹¹ And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus. 

Which is it?  Did they hear the voice or some sound or didn't they.  So, not only do you have phantom witnesses who are lost to history, you also have a contradictory account about whether they were even witnesses to anything at all.

Aparantly thier were a lot of whitenesses with Paul the men who journyed with him Jesus and God.

Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: (So Jesus is the key witness and the most reliable witness.)

Islam hate Pauls statements in which he predicted false religions like islam who origanited from a so called false angel.

This is closing my argument with you and thus you still haven't provided any evidence for me that  of Muhammad's so called visions of an angel which had tell the story of the Quran can you you provide me any of the witnesses who were present if there were any present that have seen Muhammad have any contact or conversation with a angel in the cave Hira at  mount  Jabal al-Nour where muslims think he received his so called first revelation.

Here is so called first revelation in sura 96 (supposed  to be sura 1) Why is the first revelation located in the 96th sura where the 2 nd and 3 rd revelation then yes they scattered all over the Quran which is supposed to be holy.

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful

96:1 Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-

96:2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:(This is in contrast with God's creation  God created man out the dust of the earth 1st)

96:3 Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-

96:4 He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-

96:5 Taught man that which he knew not.

96:6 Day, but man doth transgress all bounds,

96:7 In that he looketh upon himself as self-sufficient.

96:8 Verily, to thy Lord is the return (of all).

96:9 Seest thou one who forbids-

96:10 A votary when he (turns) to pray?

96:11 Seest thou if he is on (the road of) Guidance?-

96:12 Or enjoins Righteousness?

96:13 Seest thou if he denies (Truth) and turns away?

96:14 Knoweth he not that Allah doth see?

96:15 Let him beware! If he desist not, We will drag him by the forelock,-

96:16 A lying, sinful forelock!

96:17 Then, let him call (for help) to his council (of comrades):

96:18 We will call on the angels of punishment (to deal with him)!

96:19 Day, heed him not: But bow down in adoration, and bring thyself the closer (to Allah)!

The Second Revelation in Sura 74.
The second portion of the Qur'an revealed to the Prophet Muhammad was the beginning of Sura al-muddaththir (74: 15). It now consists of 56 verses, the rest revealed later, and begins as follows: 'O you, covered in your cloak, arise and warn, thy Lord magnify, thy raiment purify, pollution shun ...'

The Last Revelation muslims can not even figure out which sura was the last revelation in thier so called devine book where nothing is even writen in chronological order  it is so distorted
Many Muslim scholars agree that the last revelation was Sura 2, verse 281:
'And fear the day when ye shall be brought back to God. Then shall every soul be paid what it earned and none shall be dealt with unjustly.'
Some also say that it was 2:282 or 2:278. [Kamal, Ahmad 'Adil: 'ulum al-Qur'an, Cairo, 1974, p.18.]
It has also been suggested that all three verses were revealed on one occasion. The Prophet died nine nights after the last revelation.
Others hold that Sura 5:4 was the last to be revealed:
'This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.'
The opinion that this verse was the last revelation is not sound according to many scholars, since it was revealed during the last pilgrimage of the Prophet. This information is based upon a hadith from 'Umar. Suyuti explains concerning the verse in Sura 5 that after it nothing concerning ahkam and hal'al and haram was revealed, and in this sense it is the 'completion' of religion. However, revelation reminding man of the coming day of judgement continued and the last such revelation is the above verse. [Sabuni, tibyan pp. 18-9] 

Edited by JOUBERAR - 04 March 2010 at 6:38pm