IslamiCity.org Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Politics > Current Events
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Israeli Jets bomb Gaza: 1,300 Dead  What is Islam What is Islam  Donate Donate
  FAQ FAQ  Quran Search Quran Search  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Israeli Jets bomb Gaza: 1,300 Dead

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 89101112 55>
Author
Message
Duende View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 27 July 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duende Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2009 at 9:52am
believer: "Nur Ilahi -your statements reek of prejudice- not all of Israel would support the things that IDF has done. Just as not all U.S. citizens support all the things Bush has done."

---Nur Ilahi's alleged prejudice is irrelevant. As is the alleged lack of unanimous support for George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq.

Since when have the views of the dissaproving minority in the US or Israel counted for anything? Nur is not expressing prejudice, she is expressing reality:

"Israelis are totally unfamiliar with the Palestinian cause. Hence, they can only interpret the Palestinian struggle as a murderous irrational lunacy. Within the Israeli Judeo- centric solipsistic universe, the Israeli is an innocent victim and the Palestinian is no less than a savage murderer."

Gilad Atzmon: Living on Borrowed Time in a Stolen Land


believer: Nur-you are forgetting that it is Hamas that started this latest rocket firings."

Even if she were 'forgetting' this oft-repeated propaganda, it would not make it any less a lie:
Top 5 Lies About Israel's Assault on Gaza

"Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.

Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a �special security zone� within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law.

Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others.

Israel�s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response by militants to the Israeli attacks."

Back to Top
peacemaker View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Male
Joined: 29 December 2005
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3057
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peacemaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2009 at 10:38am
Originally posted by ops155 ops155 wrote:

SO can anyone tell me if they believe this latest assalt would have happened if over 200 rockets were not fired in a day? Just because they can't aim them very well doesn't mean crap. What if all those rockets hit schools and such. Would you all then still be sticking up for Hamas? No matter what you think the response should have been they came out and flat out said, if it doesn't stop you will pay and paying they are doing. Remember when you point that finger at someone else there are 3 pointing back at you. Wink

 They started this one and now they must live with the results of their actions.
 
Hello ops 155,
 
This thread is about Israeli attack on already suffering Palestinian people who have been subjected to brutal occupation for the last many decades. No one in this thread supports the idealogy of Hamas. I have always maintained in this forum as a participant and a moderator that Islam forbids killing of innocent civilians; in fact, most of the scholars in Islam support this notion. Period.
 
You may also like to see the link below that clarifies that it is Israel that broke the truce:
 
Gaza: Colonial Violence and Flawed Justifications
by Rachad Antonius, December 31 2008

http://www.tadamon.ca/post/2373

The Israeli government's propaganda about the war in Gaza has been
uncritically accepted by Canadian media, becoming the dominant discourse
in most news reports. The violence we are witnessing is explained by
declaring that Hamas has broken the truce with Israel, and therefore it is
responsible for the current level of Israeli violence, which is thereby
represented merely as a reasonable and justified retaliation. According to
this view, Israel is only defending itself against a vicious enemy which
is still intent on destroying it. At best, the excesses of the attacks
against Gaza are deplored, but their presentation as retaliation is not
even questioned.

The meaning that the government of Israel wants to give to the event is
thereby internalized, becoming the frame through which the present
situation is perceived and understood. The principle of using violence to
resolve a dispute is not put in question, so long as it is Israel that
uses the violence and the dispute is one with Palestinians. In this case
violence is seen as legitimate, but illegitimate if committed by Hamas.
This remains the case even if the means at the disposal of each of the
protagonists are not comparable and even if neither the damage they suffer
nor the capacity each has to inflict damage are not at all comparable.

This logic suffers from two fundamental flaws. First it contradicts the
empirical facts on the ground, which are well documented and are not so
much called into question as they are conveniently forgotten. Second, this
logic is openly a colonial logic.

Who broke the truce ?

Contrary to what has been repeated in editorials and in the TV interviews
of various experts, it was not Hamas who broke the truce, but Israel. On
November 4, 2008, a truce that had lasted for four months was broken by
Israel in a bombardment that killed six Palestinians. Only after these
killings did Hamas resume its rocket-launching against Israeli localities.
On November 17, Israeli planes bombed once again, killing four more
Palestinians, bringing the total number of Palestinian casualties since
November 4, to 15. These facts are well documented. (See, for instance,
the report of former Jerusalem Post correspondent, Joel Greenberg, in the
Chicago Tribune of November 17, 2008, among many others.) Immediately
after the first bombing of November 4, Israel started its full blockade of
Gaza, preventing the entry of food and medication. Between November 5 and
November 30, only 23 trucks of food and supplies were allowed into Gaza,
whereas the average in the preceding period was about 3000 trucks monthly
for a population numbering 1.5 million. The humanitarian situation,
already a disaster, and described as such by the United Nations' envoy,
became even more catastrophic as a result of the blockade. Yet neither the
bombings nor the blockade are considered to be aggressions.

A colonial logic

What is it that gets the opinion-makers to "forget" these "minor"
details?
In reality the government of Israel gives itself the right to use violence
against a population that it considers inferior. It considers that these
inferior people should not even be allowed to protest. With such colonial
logic, nothing is considered as an aggression if it is conducted against a
subaltern population. Any movement of revolt, on the part of the
subaltern, is considered a challenge to the colonial order and must be
severely punished. Accordingly, there is no need to respect international
law, as inferior people are deemed to understand only the language of
force.

Fortunately this logic is not shared by all Israelis, and movements, such
as Gush Shalom, challenged it vigourously; they also called for an
immediate ceasefire. Unfortunately the Canadian political elite seems to
have accepted Israeli propaganda fully. But the language of force will not
ever get us out of the dead end we're in; only respect for international
law will.
* Rachad Antonius is a professseur at the Universit� du Qu�bec � Montr�al.
 
It is imperative that we stick to the thread and comply with guidelines.
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13
Back to Top
Ron Webb View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar
Male atheist
Joined: 30 January 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 2467
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2009 at 2:12pm
Originally posted by Nur_Ilahi Nur_Ilahi wrote:

I would like to ask you [believer] a question, If Jesus were to be alive now, whose side will he be with? The Israelis or the Palestinians?
Pardon me for interjecting, but what makes you think He would be on either side?  Jesus made it quite clear that that aggression is equally wrong on both sides, and it doesn't matter who started it or how evil your opponent is.  
 
Quote You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 
Matthew 5:38-39
Quote But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
Luke 6:27-35
 
The fundamental difference between Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions is the principle that while "an eye for an eye" may seem like justice, in the long run it is no way to solve anything.  Not that most Christians themselves understand it, mind you.  Jesus died on the cross as a dramatic illustration of non-resistance and non-violence, but still most of His followers managed to miss the point. Ermm
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
Back to Top
hat2010 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member


Joined: 10 October 2006
Location: Neutral Zone
Status: Offline
Points: 561
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hat2010 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2009 at 2:58pm
Ok... here is some news from neighboring city, Rabat -

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/04/africa/AF-Morocco-Gaza-Protest.php

Tens of thousands of Moroccans march in solidarity

RABAT, Morocco: A demonstration against the Israeli offensive in Gaza has drawn tens of thousands of people to the streets of the Moroccan capital.

Police have put the number of demonstrators at 50,000, according to the official MAP news agency. But organizers say even more turned out for the peaceful march in this Muslim kingdom on the Atlantic coast.

Protesters emphasized their solidarity with the Palestinians in general and with Gaza residents in particular during Sunday's four-hour march, which coincided with large demonstrations in Turkey and Lebanon.

It closed with call to the Arab world to continue supporting the Palestinian cause and denouncing Israel's air and land offensive against the militant Hamas organization that controls Gaza.
Back to Top
Shasta'sAunt View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member

Female
Joined: 29 March 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1930
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shasta'sAunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2009 at 5:02pm
"Nur-you are forgetting that it is Hamas that started this latest rocket firings."
 
And here is why, from an Israeli article that I posted here, which apparently went unread. You can actually read it, I posted the link below.
 
"Since Nov. 4, when Israel effectively broke the truce with Hamas by attacking Gaza on a scale then unprecedented � a fact now buried with Gaza's dead � the violence has escalated as Hamas responded by sending hundreds of rockets into Israel to kill Israeli civilians. It is reported that Israel's strategy is to hit Hamas military targets, but explain that difference to my Palestinian friends who must bury their children.

On Nov. 5, Israel sealed all crossing points into Gaza, vastly reducing and at times denying food supplies, medicines, fuel, cooking gas, and parts for water and sanitation systems. A colleague of mine in Jerusalem said, "this siege is in a league of its own. The Israelis have not done something like this before."

http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13879
�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt
Back to Top
Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 January 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1031
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2009 at 6:29pm
Believer, you are evading my question. Are you too afraid to face reality that no matter what, Jesus alaihissalam will never ever side with the Evil Dajjal Worshipping Zionists?
 
That is the eye for eye mentality. - If that is so, why must a harmless rocket that never did kill any Israelis (of course it did not kill any Israelis because it was shot by Israelis themselves as what their motto says - BY DECEPTION THOU SHOULD DO WAR) be returned with WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION BY THE IDF?
 
 
 
Picture from ORF website of supposed 'militants'
 
Quote from the above website - The rockets shown on Austrian TV looked to me like the fancy Bengala Rockets which are shot here while celebrating new year, and the clips shown on TV raise many questions:

* The picture published at the
ORF website is credited to "MOHAMED SABER/EPA". Those are two first names and no family name. Who is this person? Why does he not present himself with a family name as any Arab would do? Does he exist at all or is he a fabrication?

* The rockets depicted in that picture (and on the video) look more like the fancy bengalas which can be bought in many shops all over the world before festivities than any known weapon.

* These so-called "rockets" appear to not have place for fuel or an engine, but they are supposed to fly 10-15Km ? How do they accomplish this miracle?
The quotes from the Bible that you provided are just that quotes only, in reality, it is not being practised by majority of Christians. As most of the law in the Bible.
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
Back to Top
Hyposonic View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member
Avatar
Joined: 17 November 2008
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hyposonic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2009 at 6:34pm

Ron Webb point well taken�..

 

I also agree with Peacemaker�s post, very insightful. But again, this is about both sides as there is an action and reaction. I continue to believe that Israeli military and Hamas are harming their own people.

 
Nur_Ilahi, no offense but your comment regarding why they shouldn't be upset about Palestinians shooting rockets if it didn't hit nothing is kinda derranged, no offense. To say it was Israelis not Palestinians means you hold the Palestinians [those who are aggressive] as innocents because they don't exists, its the Jews? Right!


Edited by Hyposonic - 04 January 2009 at 6:36pm
Back to Top
Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior  Member
Avatar

Joined: 19 January 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1031
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2009 at 6:34pm
Ron Wrote - Pardon me for interjecting, but what makes you think He would be on either side?  Jesus made it quite clear that that aggression is equally wrong on both sides, and it doesn't matter who started it or how evil your opponent is. 
 
Of course. As a leader, Jesus has to be impartial, intelligent, honest, respectable, decent, trustworthy and many other traits of a human being. These traits are not found in Israeli mentality. Theirs is a sick mentality that loves gory, bloody, evil and all other traits of a devil worshipping people.
 
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 89101112 55>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.