Israeli Jets bomb Gaza: 1,300 Dead |
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Duende
Senior Member Joined: 27 July 2005 Status: Offline Points: 651 |
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believer: "Nur Ilahi -your statements reek of prejudice- not all of Israel would support the things that IDF has done. Just as not all U.S. citizens support all the things Bush has done."
---Nur Ilahi's alleged prejudice is irrelevant. As is the alleged lack of unanimous support for George W. Bush's invasion of Iraq. Since when have the views of the dissaproving minority in the US or Israel counted for anything? Nur is not expressing prejudice, she is expressing reality: "Israelis are totally unfamiliar with the Palestinian cause. Hence, they can only interpret the Palestinian struggle as a murderous irrational lunacy. Within the Israeli Judeo- centric solipsistic universe, the Israeli is an innocent victim and the Palestinian is no less than a savage murderer." Gilad Atzmon: Living on Borrowed Time in a Stolen Land believer: Nur-you are forgetting that it is Hamas that started this latest rocket firings." Even if she were 'forgetting' this oft-repeated propaganda, it would not make it any less a lie: Top 5 Lies About Israel's Assault on Gaza "Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks. Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a �special security zone� within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law. Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others. Israel�s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response by militants to the Israeli attacks." |
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peacemaker
Moderator Group Male Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3057 |
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Hello ops 155,
This thread is about Israeli attack on already suffering Palestinian people who have been subjected to brutal occupation for the last many decades. No one in this thread supports the idealogy of Hamas. I have always maintained in this forum as a participant and a moderator that Islam forbids killing of innocent civilians; in fact, most of the scholars in Islam support this notion. Period.
You may also like to see the link below that clarifies that it is Israel that broke the truce:
Gaza: Colonial Violence and Flawed Justifications
by Rachad Antonius, December 31 2008 http://www.tadamon.ca/post/2373 The Israeli government's propaganda about the war in Gaza has been uncritically accepted by Canadian media, becoming the dominant discourse in most news reports. The violence we are witnessing is explained by declaring that Hamas has broken the truce with Israel, and therefore it is responsible for the current level of Israeli violence, which is thereby represented merely as a reasonable and justified retaliation. According to this view, Israel is only defending itself against a vicious enemy which is still intent on destroying it. At best, the excesses of the attacks against Gaza are deplored, but their presentation as retaliation is not even questioned. The meaning that the government of Israel wants to give to the event is thereby internalized, becoming the frame through which the present situation is perceived and understood. The principle of using violence to resolve a dispute is not put in question, so long as it is Israel that uses the violence and the dispute is one with Palestinians. In this case violence is seen as legitimate, but illegitimate if committed by Hamas. This remains the case even if the means at the disposal of each of the protagonists are not comparable and even if neither the damage they suffer nor the capacity each has to inflict damage are not at all comparable. This logic suffers from two fundamental flaws. First it contradicts the empirical facts on the ground, which are well documented and are not so much called into question as they are conveniently forgotten. Second, this logic is openly a colonial logic. Who broke the truce ? Contrary to what has been repeated in editorials and in the TV interviews of various experts, it was not Hamas who broke the truce, but Israel. On November 4, 2008, a truce that had lasted for four months was broken by Israel in a bombardment that killed six Palestinians. Only after these killings did Hamas resume its rocket-launching against Israeli localities. On November 17, Israeli planes bombed once again, killing four more Palestinians, bringing the total number of Palestinian casualties since November 4, to 15. These facts are well documented. (See, for instance, the report of former Jerusalem Post correspondent, Joel Greenberg, in the Chicago Tribune of November 17, 2008, among many others.) Immediately after the first bombing of November 4, Israel started its full blockade of Gaza, preventing the entry of food and medication. Between November 5 and November 30, only 23 trucks of food and supplies were allowed into Gaza, whereas the average in the preceding period was about 3000 trucks monthly for a population numbering 1.5 million. The humanitarian situation, already a disaster, and described as such by the United Nations' envoy, became even more catastrophic as a result of the blockade. Yet neither the bombings nor the blockade are considered to be aggressions. A colonial logic What is it that gets the opinion-makers to "forget" these "minor" details? In reality the government of Israel gives itself the right to use violence against a population that it considers inferior. It considers that these inferior people should not even be allowed to protest. With such colonial logic, nothing is considered as an aggression if it is conducted against a subaltern population. Any movement of revolt, on the part of the subaltern, is considered a challenge to the colonial order and must be severely punished. Accordingly, there is no need to respect international law, as inferior people are deemed to understand only the language of force. Fortunately this logic is not shared by all Israelis, and movements, such as Gush Shalom, challenged it vigourously; they also called for an immediate ceasefire. Unfortunately the Canadian political elite seems to have accepted Israeli propaganda fully. But the language of force will not ever get us out of the dead end we're in; only respect for international law will. * Rachad Antonius is a professseur at the Universit� du Qu�bec � Montr�al. It is imperative that we stick to the thread and comply with guidelines.
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Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Qur'an 55:13 |
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Ron Webb
Senior Member Male atheist Joined: 30 January 2008 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2467 |
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Pardon me for interjecting, but what makes you think He would be on either side? Jesus made it quite clear that that aggression is equally wrong on both sides, and it doesn't matter who started it or how evil your opponent is.
The fundamental difference between Christianity and the other Abrahamic religions is the principle that while "an eye for an eye" may seem like justice, in the long run it is no way to solve anything. Not that most Christians themselves understand it, mind you. Jesus died on the cross as a dramatic illustration of non-resistance and non-violence, but still most of His followers managed to miss the point. |
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Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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hat2010
Senior Member Joined: 10 October 2006 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 561 |
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Ok... here is some news from neighboring city, Rabat -
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2009/01/04/africa/AF-Morocco-Gaza-Protest.php Tens of thousands of Moroccans march in solidarity RABAT, Morocco: A demonstration against the Israeli offensive in Gaza has drawn tens of thousands of people to the streets of the Moroccan capital. Police have put the number of demonstrators at 50,000, according to the official MAP news agency. But organizers say even more turned out for the peaceful march in this Muslim kingdom on the Atlantic coast. Protesters emphasized their solidarity with the Palestinians in general and with Gaza residents in particular during Sunday's four-hour march, which coincided with large demonstrations in Turkey and Lebanon. It closed with call to the Arab world to continue supporting the Palestinian cause and denouncing Israel's air and land offensive against the militant Hamas organization that controls Gaza. |
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Shasta'sAunt
Senior Member Female Joined: 29 March 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1930 |
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"Nur-you are forgetting that it is Hamas that started this latest rocket firings."
And here is why, from an Israeli article that I posted here, which apparently went unread. You can actually read it, I posted the link below. "Since Nov. 4, when Israel effectively broke the truce with Hamas by attacking Gaza on a scale then unprecedented � a fact now buried with Gaza's dead � the violence has escalated as Hamas responded by sending hundreds of rockets into Israel to kill Israeli civilians. It is reported that Israel's strategy is to hit Hamas military targets, but explain that difference to my Palestinian friends who must bury their children.
On Nov. 5, Israel sealed all crossing points into Gaza, vastly reducing and at times denying food supplies, medicines, fuel, cooking gas, and parts for water and sanitation systems. A colleague of mine in Jerusalem said, "this siege is in a league of its own. The Israelis have not done something like this before." http://www.islamicity.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13879 |
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�No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.�
Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Nur_Ilahi
Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1031 |
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Believer, you are evading my question. Are you too afraid to face reality that no matter what, Jesus alaihissalam will never ever side with the Evil Dajjal Worshipping Zionists?
That is the eye for eye mentality. - If that is so, why must a harmless rocket that never did kill any Israelis (of course it did not kill any Israelis because it was shot by Israelis themselves as what their motto says - BY DECEPTION THOU SHOULD DO WAR) be returned with WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION BY THE IDF?
Picture from ORF website of supposed 'militants'
Quote from the above website - The rockets shown on Austrian TV looked to me like the fancy Bengala Rockets which are shot here while celebrating new year, and the clips shown on TV raise many questions:
* The picture published at the ORF website is credited to "MOHAMED SABER/EPA". Those are two first names and no family name. Who is this person? Why does he not present himself with a family name as any Arab would do? Does he exist at all or is he a fabrication? * The rockets depicted in that picture (and on the video) look more like the fancy bengalas which can be bought in many shops all over the world before festivities than any known weapon. * These so-called "rockets" appear to not have place for fuel or an engine, but they are supposed to fly 10-15Km ? How do they accomplish this miracle? The quotes from the Bible that you provided are just that quotes only, in reality, it is not being practised by majority of Christians. As most of the law in the Bible.
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Hyposonic
Senior Member Joined: 17 November 2008 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 247 |
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Ron Webb point well taken�.. I also agree with Peacemaker�s post, very insightful. But again, this is about both sides as there is an action and reaction. I continue to believe that Israeli military and Hamas are harming their own people. Nur_Ilahi, no offense but your comment regarding why they shouldn't be upset about Palestinians shooting rockets if it didn't hit nothing is kinda derranged, no offense. To say it was Israelis not Palestinians means you hold the Palestinians [those who are aggressive] as innocents because they don't exists, its the Jews? Right! Edited by Hyposonic - 04 January 2009 at 6:36pm |
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Nur_Ilahi
Senior Member Joined: 19 January 2008 Status: Offline Points: 1031 |
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Ron Wrote - Pardon me for interjecting, but what makes you think He would be on either side? Jesus made it quite clear that that aggression is equally wrong on both sides, and it doesn't matter who started it or how evil your opponent is.
Of course. As a leader, Jesus has to be impartial, intelligent, honest, respectable, decent, trustworthy and many other traits of a human being. These traits are not found in Israeli mentality. Theirs is a sick mentality that loves gory, bloody, evil and all other traits of a devil worshipping people.
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Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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