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ADEENUL �AQL � RELIGION IS INTELLECT .

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Nur_Ilahi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 June 2008 at 10:43pm
To Ron

God's capacity for love or hate may be beyond our understanding,

 
If we cannot define the word �Love� from God, how could we define His appearance like what is being portrayed by Christianity in deifying Jesus as God?  Indeed. in Islamic Tasawwuf, Love of God is -
 
Mahabbah (love) means fondness, tender and kind feelings, and inclination. When love affects and invades all feelings of man, it is called passion and when it gets so deep and irresistible as to burn with the desire of union, it is called fervor and enthusiasm. Love has been defined by the sufis as the relation of the heart with the Truly Beloved One or the irresistible desire felt for Him, or trying to comply with His desires or Commandments in all one�s acts and thoughts, or being enraptured and intoxicated without �sobriety� until the time of union. All these definitions can be summed up as �standing� in the Presence of God and being freed from all transient relationships and worries.

 

Perhaps to you, it sounds alien, but this is the deeper spiritual concept of Love towards God Almighty � The Creator of the Whole Universe. As for hate, in a Hadis Qudsi, He said � My Mercy prevails over my Wrath�  Allah assures us that whoever commits a sin will be forgiven if he repents and ceases this act, where He says what means: {Your Lord hath inscribed for Himself (the rule of) mercy: verily, if any of you did evil in ignorance, and thereafter repented, and amend (his conduct), lo! He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful} (Al-An`am 6:54).

 

 but we have to assume that the feeling is essentially the same for Him as for us. 

 

Not at all, Our love of God is still nothing compared to His love. Most of the times, our love for Him, is for something in return, be it Jannah (Paradise) or fear of Jahannam (Hell). It is the love of a barter trader � I give you something in return for yours. How could we �make business� with God AlMighty when the assets that we need for the �business� are all from Him?. For example, the air that we breathe, the food that we eat, the water that we drink and most important of all, the Ruh or Soul that He lent to us. God do not need anything from us. He is AL-QAYY�M The Self-Existing by Whom all subsist. �

 

If we can't trust the meaning of ordinary words, we might as well toss the entire Quran in the trash.

 

Even though the Bible is not a word of God, Muslims will not reach to that level of insolence as to toss the Bible into the trash.

 

As to drinking alcohol, there are more harm than good. God Almighty in passing this law, is trying to protect the weak from the strong. Most of the times the drinker is the men, and the ones being abused are the women and children. Furthermore, alcohol destroys the brain and only st**id people indulge in this st**id act.

Take this analogy, we use safety belts while driving. Why is this so? Because the advantages are more than the disadvantages. Using a seat belt is now considered a law in some countries.

 

 How can we know that the Quran contains the truth without using our conscience and our intellect?   Perhaps you will never know if you have never open The Quran and reading it with an open mind.

 

 Indeed, how can we know anything without relying on our own hearts and our own brains?  That is what I mean by my signature.

 

God Almighty created each and everyone of us equal and fair. He created the souls with the ability to llive, see, hear, converse, will, power and knowledge. All these are in us. God AlMighty says in the Quran -

 

By the Soul, and the proportion and order given to it; and its enlightenment as to its wrong and its right. (91:7-8) 

 

We showed him the right and wrong path. It is now up to him to be grateful or ungrateful. (76:3)  

 

Have We not made for him a pair of eyes? A tongue, and a pair of lips? And shown him the two paths (of good and evil)? (90: 8-10) 

 

So set thou thy face steadily and truly to the Faith; (Establish) Allah�s handiwork according to the pattern on which He has made mankind: no change (let there be) in the work (wrought) by Allah: that is the standard religion; but most among mankind understand not. (30:30) 

 

In fact, he himself is a witness upon his own self however much he may put up excuses. (75:14-15)  

 

So Ron, it is all up to us to make full use God�s gift to find the Truth.

 



Edited by Nur_Ilahi - 20 June 2008 at 10:46pm
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Israfil View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Israfil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2008 at 9:22pm
God's capacity for love or hate may be beyond our understanding, but we have to assume that the feeling is essentially the same for Him as for us.  If we can't trust the meaning of ordinary words, we might as well toss the entire Quran in the trash.
 
You are mentioning 'faith' and I do have faith but I do not have faith in the meaning of 'certain' words. Saying God is love is a faith based belief based upon doctrinal beliefs about God. Although it may be true we cannot risk limiting God according to our definitions of what we think God is. Although its inevitable as humans that we attribute love and anger to God these are physical descriptions of God's 'emotion.'


 
 
 
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Merigen View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merigen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2008 at 8:02pm
Hi Angel,
 
I think we are getting side tracked Wink 
 
Sorry, that was me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Merigen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2008 at 8:00pm
Hi Hasan,
 
You talked about covered-up or dressed up woman getting more attention than one in the skirt.
You are right in that, but we have to see here what kind of attention we are talking about.  A woman walking by with cloths that expose her form and beauty and show her body and skin catches a strange man's attention in majority of cases for what? I don't think for her intellegent mind or her language or what she does for a living rather for one: her body and beyond!   
 
Lol!  We are talking about what men perceive.  Tell me - whatever woman you look at, whether covered up or not, you are thinking about her intellect just as she is strolling along??  You can't determine the  intellect of a person unless you speak to them.  We are all guilty of making judgements about what we see but in the end that just isn't fair. 
 
I have to ask, if all these supposed temptations have presented themselves to you, why did you pick the US to live in anyway?  That may be unfair however as you may of come here as a child. 
 
Now on the other hand, as you talked about, a woman passing by, covered head to toe grabes attention too and more so today. Is it the same attention? No, and that is the point. That woman is not giving the man the oppertunity to see her form, shape of her beautiful body and skin, covered, protected from those looks and thoughts. 
 
Sorry, men are going to be curious no matter what. Look at youWink - in the wording in the above - That woman is not giving the man the opportunity to see her form, shape of her beautiful body and skin...
I'm just giving you a bad time.  Take care and have a good weekend!
 
Merigen
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ron Webb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2008 at 5:32pm

Originally posted by Israfil Israfil wrote:

The reason I used quotation marks around "love" is I don't want to attribute the human definition of love to God. I try to maintain this idea that God is beyond our understanding, this means even words we find in our doctrines, even words that glorify God, God is beyond them. What I see as love maybe different for God.

God's capacity for love or hate may be beyond our understanding, but we have to assume that the feeling is essentially the same for Him as for us.  If we can't trust the meaning of ordinary words, we might as well toss the entire Quran in the trash.

Quote If you are a no-Muslim medically there is nothing wrong with drinking wine especially done in moderation as research has shown. However one has to draw the line between indulging in these behaviors and being religious. If a religion strictly prohibits drinking alcohol then the person must avoid it, otherwise to indulge is in that moment to cease being of that faith. You can't transgress religious values and call yourself religious, these are contradictions. You have to understand that there are certain values that we must abide by even if its shown in reality that these "things" won't necessarily harm us. We human don't always have to indulge our senses and its important to know that.

No, but we do have to listen to our own conscience and our own intellect -- or else, again, we might as well toss the Quran in the trash.  How can we know that the Quran contains the truth without using our conscience and our intellect?  Indeed, how can we know anything without relying on our own hearts and our own brains?  That is what I mean by my signature.
Addeenul �Aql � Religion is intellect.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote honeto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2008 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

Originally posted by honeto honeto wrote:

the manmade standards, which are based on trial and error, and are ever changing
 
When society changes, (and people change all the change), and it grows then rules and some laws need to change. If things stay the same then society stagnates and does not grow. If we don't have trail and error then one does not learn. At the moment my city is trailing a 2am lockout on nightclubs to curb violence usually drunken behaviour, those who are already in the nightclubs can stay. But entry at 2am and after will not be allowed. there's a 3 month trail and the first two weekends have not gone that smoothly but on a whole it seems fine. if successful after 3 mths then it will became law except the casino will be exempt. This is an example of rules needing to change because society and people change. Now I don't want you to come back if such things were not allowed in the first place...I'm not going about that.
 
Now as for the dressing:   
 
Quote Now on the other hand, as you talked about, a woman passing by, covered head to toe grabes attention too and more so today. Is it the same attention? No, and that is the point. That woman is not giving the man the oppertunity to see her form, shape of her beautiful body and skin, covered, protected from those looks and thoughts.
 
In many discussions about this in the past, the attention is and can be the same for someone who is covered up. In the west people are used to bear skin and wearing bikinis at the beach so everyone sees and is used it. It leaves NOTHING for the imagination and there's no mystery to anything either. But when one is covered it leaves something for the imagination and makes one wonder what she look likes under the clothes. Bearing all does not always give attention, men see much all day almost every day so why would they start lusting over a woman who is always in a bikini? 
 
But going to a place where its not the norm, well of course men would lust after and fall head first in the ground because they weren't watching where they were going.
 
   
Quote I only wanted to make clear my understanding on the issue.
 
there's nothing wrong that nor showing islams view but there is a few issues that you need to know also. And everytime I will point that out Wink 

 

 
Angel,
I don't think you can ever get use to what is wrong. I would have believed you if the advertising companies and magazines were not using women and their bare bodies as a tool to sell.
Every week when I go to shopping in the Super Walmart, just before paying I have to go through racks on my back and front full of magazines, who's covers most of the times have one thing in common, beautiful women, almost exposed to the bottom, you tell me why, in the past 70-80 years of exposure have we really not gotten over it, or as you suggest got use to it?
 
Sign of a good social system is that it changes bad behavior with what is good and shapes a better society, and not the other way around.
Hasan


Edited by honeto - 19 June 2008 at 1:29pm
The friends of God will certainly have nothing to fear, nor will they be grieved. Al Quran 10:62

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nur_Ilahi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2008 at 7:56am
Originally posted by Angel Angel wrote:

I think we are getting side tracked Wink 
 
Smile No, not at all.
 
This topic Adeenul 'Aql i= Religion is intellect - s very wide indeed.
 
And we need our intellect to balance the facts that we, especially the Muslims here are, presenting. Star
Ilahi Anta Maksudi, Wa Redhaka Mathlubi - Oh Allah, You are my destination, Your Pleasure is my Intention.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 June 2008 at 7:47am
I think we are getting side tracked Wink 
~ Our feet are earthbound, but our hearts and our minds have wings ~
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